Climate Change Protests - will they make a difference?

Maisie- none of the steps we will have to take will be popular.
Therein lies the problem. Sorry- one of the problems.1

MaizieD
Richard Murphy has some ideas. I can't see them being popular as they are tax
I agree
Taxation may be popular to some but I doubt it would be effective. The rich people and countries would just either pay up or outsource the problem and the poor people/countries would suffer.
What is needed is education, inspiration, innovation, help and maybe a bit of humiliation.
Look How Attenborough got the World talking about sea pollution.
I don't think bullying or taxation is good. As others have said, this has to be tackled on a goals basis, some will be able to achieve the goals sooner than others, but as long as everyone is trying we should not ignore progress made by any.

It has got nothing to do with tax, all to do with technology. Wind turbines are not the answer.

As I mentioned yesterday I monitor where are electricity is coming from daily, ofen more than daily on gridwatch.co.uk/ It is currently showing that nearly half the power we are now using this minute comes from renewable sources, but yesterday evening at around 6.00pm it was 35% and by the time it was dark it would have fallen to 20% as solar dropped out. Sometimes the contribution of renewables can fall as low as 20% or less.

What technology is there around or is there likely to be around that in the next five years that can be guaranteed 24/7 bridge the gap between what wind turbines and solar produce, with a small element of biomass.

Nuclear power stations cannot be built in six years neither can the tidal barrages along the Welsh coast and the rejected one on the Severn estuary.

Battery technology is developing and may help to bridge some variable renewables over a day, but what happens when renewables are below peak demand for days and weeks on end - and that does happen, especially in winter andthis technology is unlikely to be ready and installed widely in 6 years.

Where are the companies that can make enough electric heating devices to replace all the gas and oil heating equipment in 6 years, or te technicians that can install them. What about transport. Where are the electric engines powerful enough to power huge lorries travelling hundreds of miles with essential supplies? Where, even are the electric cars capable of towing a caravan or travelling for 300-400 miles fully loaded with a family of four and their luggage off on holiday. How do we manufacture all the vehicles needed to replace every vehicle now on the road in 6 years.

What about trains. We back onto the main London - Bristol line. The elctrification schem started in 2012. It is still not complete. They are still arguing about what to do about the listed bridge running through our village on a key length between Didcot and Swindon. It was due to be built in 2014. It is 2019 and we are no nearer dealing with this problem.

All the taxation measures in the world cannot solve problems when the technology is not there to provide the solution.

M0nica, I think some of your points highlight how we have been passively sleepwalking towards a precipice.

We don't have the technology, or the skilled installers. Those things will take more time, until commercial interests decide there is huge profit in providing them. By which time, I fear such recreational pursuits as caravan-towing and jolly family holidays will be but a memory.

We all have to stop being such greedy over-consumers.

I agree with your posts M0nica and we cannot rely on just one or two sources of energy.

Why are builders not compelled to put solar panels on every new house which is suitably located?

We cannot go back to pre-Industrial Revolution - humans have, in the main, strived to progress so we will have to progress in new directions but with realistic expectations. Measures which are too punitive will just lead to different types of protests and perhaps anarchy and could lead to the type of scenario you illustrate.

People may be protesting in the capital but today, all over the country, so many others were out in their cars on the Bank Holiday.

It's totally disgusting.
Two of my AC are running in the London marathon and have 5 figure pledges to each for their charities as have tens of thousands of other runners.
If the purported disruption goes ahead, it will lay to waste all the months of their training and the year long planning and sponsorship deals created by the organisers.
They are just selfish brats.

Callistemon, I agree solar panels should have been made compulsory long ago, but solar cannot provide enough to power a home and even if batteries can be used to save occasional over-production of power, the long winter months when solar production is very low leaves a large gap - then there are houses not orientated correctly to benefit from solar power and blocks of flats.

Hapiyogi it is easy to blame commercial companies.But many companies in the heating industry are quite small man and boy or 10 men and a dog operations and they can only install what customers request and manufacturers can only manufacture what there is a demand for.

Replace a gas boiler with an electric one, it will cost you £5,000 and double your fuel bills, rip out your wet heating system and put a new electric system in and you will need to invest as muc as £10,000 - and double your fuel bill. How many consumers can afford this, let alone choose to do it - so commercial companies do not make the equipmen tor offer it.

Back in the 1960s when the gas industry converted from coal gas to natural gas, the conversion was done free by the nationalised British Gas. When solar panels first came in and wind turbines, government subsidised both. Now the market has grown and is profitable - despite much lower prices, subsidies have been removed.

I am not opposed to people demonstrating for emission removal to be speeded up, I am absolutely in favour of that but setting ridiculous scenarios like doing it by 2025 is plain stupid.

Of course it will make a difference. It will change attitudes. That is exactly what the suffragists and suffragettes did. They did not get us the vote but they created the circumstances so that when a government saw an opportunity they were in the right state of mind and so was the country.

Some will no doubt continue to harrumph about the demonstrations but the young have the strength and willingness to carry on with a lot of help from those of other generations. It is likely that some devastation - it should have been one of the ones we have had already but our mindset wasn't at that point - will make governments make the change. What we need is to get them and the voters to the stage where we believe that what needs doing should be done.

Callistemon
Couldn't agree more RE solar panels. Add to that insulation and then more insulation.
Add to that recycling of water.

Petra we have solar panels and a sunken tank under our lawn which harvests rain water which we use to flush our lavatories in the winter and water our garden in the summer also.

It is more complicated than just single use plastic and human made CO2 emissions, the earths climate has been cyclical since day 1 as scientists have now discovered.

Cows and livestock emit CO2, the planet cannot support all its population on a vegan/vegetarian diet. Our youngsters in school,are now being educated on the viability of certain lifestyles/choices, they are the future.

XR although I have no doubts that they are sincere and believe what they are saying have not got any plans/way forward to put to any governmental departments which could be implemented.

If they continue to protest in this way they will lose a lot of support from every day folks going about their business (or should that be trying to?).

As we all know, electricity is way more expensive than gas as gas is classed as a 'luxury' by energy firms and electricity is a necessity.
You'd think the price bias would be towards gas but no.
One revolution of one wind turbine's arms will power the average family home for one day.
Personally, I think that water power would be more effective as tides ebb and flow several times in 24 hours. Storms would generate even more power as would waterfalls.
The cost will be the stumbling block and I doubt whether anything meaningful will be done in the lifetimes of my AC or GC, if then.
Meanwhile, saving 20 minutes via HS2 is a total waste of both time and money.

Gabriella totally agree re HS2

Personally, I think that water power would be more effective as tides ebb and flow several times in 24 hours
Totally agree Gabriella
(four times)

Other countries make better use of hydro-electric power than we do - as for wave power, we are surrounded by sea and we have the second highest tidal range in the world in the Bristol Channel.

GG13
All you need now is the wind turbines at the bottom of the garden and you've got your Blue Peter badge.
Well done???
We lived off grid for 20yrs with solar panels and 2 wind turbines. At the time we were lucky enough to be able to to buy some serious heavy duty batteries to be able to store the power.

and we have the second highest tidal range in the world in the Bristol Channel.

But when the proposal to harness the water power in the Bristol Channel was mooted years ago, it was slammed for other environmental reasons.... wildlife, etc

M0nica, I wasn't blaming small local heating companies but rather the global players.

However I don't believe that manufacturers only make what "we" want or ask for. They manufacture what they believe will yield the highest profit, and then target us through immensely slick advertising until we believe that we need what they're peddling. Once we've bought that, they'll release the new, improved, sexier version and set about making us "need" that too...

Petra the battery manufacturing sector is having a bit of a "eureka" moment at present, they have finally woken up to the fact that they need to up their game and produce cells that last longer, give out more energy and recharge quicker.

Not sure about a wind turbine in the garden, neighbor and wildlife would object vociferously!!!

It seems as if many councils are singing different words to the same tune.
Where I live we have green food waste caddies, blue bins for recycling and black for rubbish.
I use either compostable liners or paper bread bags for food waste but I've seen some refuse collectors put it in the truck along with the black bin contents.
I rang the council about it and was told there is no requirement to separate food waste from normal rubbish which makes a mockery of giving us the green caddies.
Different areas have different recycling plants which do not necessarily recycle the same items as other plants.
It's all at odds with the strict rules laid out when the scheme first started.
I despair.
H&M (where I frequently shop) give you £5 for every carrier bag of clothes/bedlinen/materials you take into the store, whether torn or old or unwanted and no matter where they were bought.
They get sorted and decent stuff gets sold to markets, some goes to charities in deprived areas abroad, and not so good stuff gets shredded cleaned and recycled into new material.
They also have a range called 'Conscious' where the skin and pulp from citrus fruits are used to make materials for some of their range.
They also use banana leaves and have many other attractive initiatives.
They also contribute a percentage of profits to UNICEF and their founder, the Persson family, 'owns' and runs the non-profit H&M foundation.
I think they are very conscious of their responsibilities.

Sparklefizz - yes, that's right. It is a Site of Special Scientific Interest, a Ramsar site (a wetland of international importance), a Special Protection Area and a Special Area of Conservation.

It seems to be a no-win situation.

However I don't believe that manufacturers only make what "we" want or ask for. They manufacture what they believe will yield the highest profit, and then target us through immensely slick advertising until we believe that we need what they're peddling. Once we've bought that, they'll release the new, improved, sexier version and set about making us "need" that too...

Hapiyogi you are assuming that manufacturers have more power than they do. Many is the product that a manufacturere has launched convinced will be a sure fire hit and has hit the floor with a thump. Think about Clive Sinclair's C5, John de Lorean's gull winged cars and those are just a couple of mega failures, there have been many others. Neither is the consumer as gullible as you think. The majority of people will not buy something they see no need for. Apple for all their success have also launched products that floated as well as a lead balloon. their seven biggest turkeys are: Apple Pippin, The 20th Anniversary Macintos, Macintosh Portable, iMac Hockey Puck Mouse, Apple III, Apple Newton, QuickTake 100. Have you heard of any of them? I haven't. We just do not notice the failures because they - fail.

My DGC were until very recently consumed with embarrassment because the only tv in their house was the old fashioned cathode ray tube variety. Their parents have finally replaced it with a small flat screen tv, but it is several years old and passed on by a friend. Some people do always upgrade to the newest model but the majority of people do not.

why didn't they protest when House of Commons is in session?
it has caused no effect on our lazy MP's at all.
Also why upset ordinary working people?
go after those who have power, much better idea.......I am a environmentalist but I am not impressed by this demonstration.

Also why did they all travel up to London, presumably by emission producing transport.

It would have been much more effective if they had stopped their supporters travelling to the demonstration(s) other than by human power -walk or cycle - and there had, as a result, been demonstrations in all the big cities of the country and hundreds of small towns as well.

They need to put their actions where their mouths are.

Although I have always been strongly in favour of the use of tidal power and recently visited, and was very impressed by the Rances barrage in France, it does need an area of high tidal range and, as I understand the Bristol Channel is the only area in Britain with that range.

A plan to put tidal lagoons all along the South Welsh coast was put forward and failed because of government concerns about committing itself to a very high price per unit for the resulting power. Read the story in detail here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44601268. I still see it as a missed opportunity. The Rance barrage has been operating since 1964, nearly 60 years and has many many years of continuing life ahead of it. The Severn barrage was turned down on what I considered specious environmental reasons.

The problem with in-sea tidal power is that while a number of trial tidal systems have been tried out over the years, no one has yet come up with a system robust enough to be scaled up to an industrial scale. The following is a very interesting article on the subject (including tidal barrages) www.technologyreview.com/s/537656/why-hasnt-tidal-power-taken-off/

The 'disruption' that will be caused when the Thames floods London will be immeasurably worse.

Callistemon, I agree solar panels should have been made compulsory long ago

Great if you can have them M0nica, Petra and Callistemon But I live in a 3 story house and at the moment none of the solar panel companies in our area will fit to anything over two stories.