Another Scottish Referendum

I'm sure the EU will want Scotland just fine - but at what cost to our economy and purses, given that our deficit exceeds the minimum required to join by many billions. Of course, the EU might bend the rules and turn a blind eye to it, or it might not... Ultimately, we have no way of knowing - so at the moment it's all just vague offerings from the SNP (which is more than sufficient for the nationalists).

Like others have said Nicola Sturgeon will never give up but the issue regarding the EU could be interesting because the EU may not want Scotland. I’m sure this was mentioned before and the EU weren’t interested.

Nicola Sturgeon never gives up does she? It's a bit like those clamouring here for a second referendum on the EU.

I guess it all boils down to whether the Scots want to be in the EU more than they want to be part of the UK.

Either way I don't think it will make a jot of difference to us in England, apart of course from saving the not inconsiderable amount we give Scotland each year.

Thank you SirChenjin for the information.

It's not imposing anything Calliste - Scotland's education system is fully devolved and consequently WM has nothing to do with the fact that CfE is a shambles and we've dropped significantly in the PISA rankings

the allocation of school places in the rotten free schools and rigid academies process
I did not realise that Westminster was imposing this system of education in Scotland too, if that is that case then I apologise.
Wales has so far resisted.

May I add that I do not believe it is unreasonable to sympathise with others who may be less content with their lot. Despite that fact that Scotland's representation at Wesminster is predominantly SNP there is relatively little they can do (given EVEL) to budge policies leftward.
You seem to infer various and concerns which simply are not part of my posts.

Precisely. I did not suggest that your environment is perfect. Happiness may be achieved without perfection and I'm well aware that some Scots don't agree with me.
You are creating an argument where none exists.
I have described the situation of my family as I see it.

but if you are happy with your own environment that's fine
I did not say that, nowhere is perfect, and I have seen posts from Scots who are less than happy with decisions made by the Scottish Parliament.

I understood your post perfectly well, mcem

What I did not understand is why you are so worried that policies that apply in England should affect Scotland when these policies are devolved.

I said that I sympathise with those in England who feel they or their families are in any way suffering under current policies.

I do not understand why Scotland becoming independent would help to change that? If Scottish MPs are more left-leaning then surely, not having any Scottish MPs in the UK Parliament could mean a RUK Parliament which is more right-wing?
So, if you are worried about the RUK and all the people living there, then Scotland staying in the UK would be better for England and Wales too.

I'm sorry, but I just do not understand the message you are trying to put across.

It is absolutely impossible to say whether we'll be better off in or out of the EU or the UK because there are so many variables and measures.

What I do know is that the polls are still not showing a swing in favour of Scottish independence and there is a decided lack of interest in another referendum up here amongst the majority non-nationalist populace. Sturgeon has announced this simply because the SNP conference takes place this weekend and she needs to feed the party stalwarts - knowing full well that there isn't sufficient support across Scotland and that the UK Govt will refuse to grant permission for another one. A win/win for all concerned.

If you read my post as I wrote it you would realise that I was contrasting the different government policies, attitudes and priorities. Holyrood cf Westminster.
Admittedly, GN does not represent the whole spectrum of English society but that was not implied by me. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that most/many members belong to the same demographic with similar family concerns.
I said that I sympathise with those in England who feel they or their families are in any way suffering under current policies. I do feel fortunate that we have a very different system and so I am willing to support that.
You are arguing against a case I did not put but if you are happy with your own environment that's fine. Many on GN seem to be less than happy with much of what is going on around them.
By having devolved government we are spared the worst excesses and I cannot see that we'd ever adopt flawed policies such as I see in the care, education and health sectors so I am not at all concerned that they might be imposed here.
I reiterate, I was simply pointing out the advantages of living in Scotland and not being 100% directed by Westminster.
I believe most respondents saw that without my having to offer such an explanation.

GN has shown me so clearly, on an individual family level, that I am far happier here than I ever could be in England.
I do not think that GN gives a broad view of England, mcem, it is a viewpoint from a certain section of society only.

Education
I don't want my family to have the stress involved in the allocation of school places in the rotten free schools and rigid academies process.
Why should that be so at any point in the future even if Scotland remained part of the UK?
I thought that education was devolved in Scotland - it is in Wales and there are no academies nor are there any grammar schools in Wales as far as I am aware. Unless the Scottish Parliament decide that academies and grammar schools are the way forward then the problems you are worried about will not happen.

Housing
I do want my 19 year-old GD to be saving optimistically with the realistic prospect of buying her own flat in a couple of years.

There is housing in England and Wales that is within the financial reach of many. Not everyone lives in London and the Home Counties.

I don't know any new mothers now but I thought that Health was devolved too and the responsibility of the Scottish Parliament.
Presumably care for the elderly and disabled is also devolved?

I do not understand your concerns about these matters which are the responsibility of the Scottish, not UK, Parliament.

I'm in the same Scotland as mcem describes. Around here, the sense of temporary relief that we are still in the EU is growing. So, soo, is a feeling that Labour are now helping the Tories waste time with can kicking meetings going nowhere. This has allowed Farage and co to mobilise and it will seriously hack off the EU who told us not to waste the time.

And, I know it's another thread, but what is the PM thinking, inviting Donald Trump on a state visit when we are still embroiled in Brexit and climate change protests are mounting?

When you are in a hole that deep, PM, surely you have to consider stopping all that digging?

NI problems re the border and backstop are in no way relevant as far as Scotland goes.
They result from a real and palpable fear of resurgent terrorism and civil war.
How can any compromise on the Good Friday agreement be contemplated (as per the idiot Boris J)?

Jura2 yes, there is. Not so much an Edinburgh bubble as a Central Belt bubble. The SNP greedily snatch as much as they can from the rest of Scotland and leave those of us outside the CB to feed on crumbs from their table.

If anything, it would be a problem of logistics and organisation around checks and tariffs not a life threatening situation with a resurgence of terrorism and civil war.
It's obvious that deep down the whole NI border/backstop difficulties are a result of that prospect so totally irrelevant as far as Scottish independence is concerned.

Grannygravy- no!

I live in the South East, I am not clued up on Scottish Politics.

I have a question........if the UK leaves the EU, Scotland votes for independence and subsequently applies to re-join the EU this immediately throws up a "border problem" and we have seen how difficult this is on the Island of Ireland.

Have Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP got a plan for this?

Sorry crossed posts grammaretto and I don't pretend it will be plain sailing, but the thought of being in thrall to a postbrexit UK appalls me.

jura in a word, yes, but compared to London, far less significant.
Differences in wages and prosperity exist but are far less extreme.
House prices are higher than elsewhere but not ridiculously so.
I wouldn't mind living in Edinburgh but would never encourage any of my family to move to London (which I did at 21 before returning a few years later.)
However I am happy here ( in the best place to live in Scotland, according to Sunday Times poll) and am delighted that most of my family feel no need to leave.
Since Holyrood bit the bullet and raised income tax for higher earners I have heard no complaints as they feel it's an entirely appropriate move.

mcem you speak a lot of sense.
I still would not vote for independence. It would be too divisive. The lessons we are learning from the awful Brexit point to something akin to civil war.
I dislike the Westminster government and think lessons can be learned about the election process for example.
I am glad our family has had the many advantages Scotland enjoys. I wish that family and friends South of the border could have some of these same benefits.
They could too but it will take a long time to untangle the many expensive mistakes along the way.

mcem, pretty convincing post.

BTW, in your opinion, is there such thing as an 'Edinburgh bubble' the same as there is a 'London bubble'?

Wish I could afford to move to Scotland!

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