Another Scottish Referendum

If the answer to both is 'out', then I shall seriously consider moving to Scotland

Nicole sturgeon is obsessed with independence and would perhaps be better concentrating on domestic matters.

If there is snither referendum that’s up to the Scottish people and as an English person to be honest I don’t care either way. If they choose to go then there their choice.

I don’t think they will find their importance to the EU and their value as much as they think though

Although I have voted SNP for several years, it's not because I am a rabid, dyed-in -the-wool nationalist.
I vote for a party that is left of centre, whose social policies I like.

GN has shown me so clearly, on an individual family level, that I am far happier here than I ever could be in England. This is not about being anti-english but about being anti-tory and anti the appalling policies being imposed on all of us by Westminster.

Education
I don't want my family to have the stress involved in the allocation of school places in the rotten free schools and rigid academies process.

Housing
I do want my 19 year-old GD to be saving optimistically with the realistic prospect of buying her own flat in a couple of years.
I do want my sick daughter to have the better level of protection she has in a privately-rented home while depending on housing benefit.

NHS
I don't want to see my DiL and new GS chucked out of hospital hours after he arrived.
I do want the wonderful, caring and flexible approach they've enjoyed while dealing with mild jaundice and the time and support given so patiently while feeding is established.
I want my daughter to have access to all the support she needs without having to deal with the problems associated with the ever-encroaching privatisation of the NHS in England.

Care
I am proud that Scotland has been in the forefront by providing free personal care for the elderly and now also for younger people with severe disabilities.

I won't touch on the macro stuff like brexit and trade deals but will mention that I do want to see us free of nuclear bases.
I've opted to concentrate on the micro issues affecting families and communities.

So a choice between sitting at an EU table alongside similar sized independent countries or being dragged along in directions I don't want to go?

I'll vote for independence for Scotland with as much conviction as I voted to remain in the EU.

mycat I posted before seeing your post.
Maybe I've shown some aspects of the Scottish government's focus on "domestic matters".

I just don’t see the hand wringing over whether you go or not. I suspect most English people think you should determine your own destiny.

Hopefully then the money sent to Scotland for all these wonderful benefits could be enjoyed in England instead.

I totally agree Westminster is pretty inept.

But do you think there’s an appetite for another referendum in Scotland? I suppose it really depends on what happens on Brexit. And goodness knows what’s going to happen there.

Hand-wringing?
I sympathise with anyone in England who is unhappy under this government, anyone who hates the prospect of brexit, anyone who feels they have no real way to express their dissatisfaction.
I'd be happier to to have independence instead of the much maligned Barnett formula which the poorly-informed use to justify their ignorant views of the real financial facts!

mycat Barnet only gives us back a % of what we pay in.....we'll be much better off financially with ALL our own revenue to spend on our own country.As it is we're subsidising the rest of the UK.The EU has already said there is NO queue and that Scotlands re entry would be swift and trouble free as we already have the EU legislation in place .

mcem I can only assume that you live in a different Scotland from me!!
Or that you've been reading the info from the SNP's large and expensive number of spin doctors.
Nicola S has had to make this pronouncement before the party conference to try to placate some of the more demanding members. The party is currently split on the demand/timing for another referendum.
There is no appetite for one in the country.

We clearly do live in different parts of the country jane but if you read my post you'll see that I deliberately chose to relate the experiences of my own family and that I in no way relied on it quoted spin doctors.
My experience, my situation, my opinion, formed over many years.
As I said I concentrated on the micro, not the macro.
By all means explain your own direct personal experiences but do not deny or denigrate mine.

(it quoted should be not quoted)

Wish I could afford to move to Scotland!

mcem, pretty convincing post.

BTW, in your opinion, is there such thing as an 'Edinburgh bubble' the same as there is a 'London bubble'?

mcem you speak a lot of sense.
I still would not vote for independence. It would be too divisive. The lessons we are learning from the awful Brexit point to something akin to civil war.
I dislike the Westminster government and think lessons can be learned about the election process for example.
I am glad our family has had the many advantages Scotland enjoys. I wish that family and friends South of the border could have some of these same benefits.
They could too but it will take a long time to untangle the many expensive mistakes along the way.

jura in a word, yes, but compared to London, far less significant.
Differences in wages and prosperity exist but are far less extreme.
House prices are higher than elsewhere but not ridiculously so.
I wouldn't mind living in Edinburgh but would never encourage any of my family to move to London (which I did at 21 before returning a few years later.)
However I am happy here ( in the best place to live in Scotland, according to Sunday Times poll) and am delighted that most of my family feel no need to leave.
Since Holyrood bit the bullet and raised income tax for higher earners I have heard no complaints as they feel it's an entirely appropriate move.

Sorry crossed posts grammaretto and I don't pretend it will be plain sailing, but the thought of being in thrall to a postbrexit UK appalls me.

I live in the South East, I am not clued up on Scottish Politics.

I have a question........if the UK leaves the EU, Scotland votes for independence and subsequently applies to re-join the EU this immediately throws up a "border problem" and we have seen how difficult this is on the Island of Ireland.

Have Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP got a plan for this?

Grannygravy- no!

If anything, it would be a problem of logistics and organisation around checks and tariffs not a life threatening situation with a resurgence of terrorism and civil war.
It's obvious that deep down the whole NI border/backstop difficulties are a result of that prospect so totally irrelevant as far as Scottish independence is concerned.

Jura2 yes, there is. Not so much an Edinburgh bubble as a Central Belt bubble. The SNP greedily snatch as much as they can from the rest of Scotland and leave those of us outside the CB to feed on crumbs from their table.

NI problems re the border and backstop are in no way relevant as far as Scotland goes.
They result from a real and palpable fear of resurgent terrorism and civil war.
How can any compromise on the Good Friday agreement be contemplated (as per the idiot Boris J)?

I'm in the same Scotland as mcem describes. Around here, the sense of temporary relief that we are still in the EU is growing. So, soo, is a feeling that Labour are now helping the Tories waste time with can kicking meetings going nowhere. This has allowed Farage and co to mobilise and it will seriously hack off the EU who told us not to waste the time.

And, I know it's another thread, but what is the PM thinking, inviting Donald Trump on a state visit when we are still embroiled in Brexit and climate change protests are mounting?

When you are in a hole that deep, PM, surely you have to consider stopping all that digging?

GN has shown me so clearly, on an individual family level, that I am far happier here than I ever could be in England.
I do not think that GN gives a broad view of England, mcem, it is a viewpoint from a certain section of society only.

Education
I don't want my family to have the stress involved in the allocation of school places in the rotten free schools and rigid academies process.
Why should that be so at any point in the future even if Scotland remained part of the UK?
I thought that education was devolved in Scotland - it is in Wales and there are no academies nor are there any grammar schools in Wales as far as I am aware. Unless the Scottish Parliament decide that academies and grammar schools are the way forward then the problems you are worried about will not happen.

Housing
I do want my 19 year-old GD to be saving optimistically with the realistic prospect of buying her own flat in a couple of years.

There is housing in England and Wales that is within the financial reach of many. Not everyone lives in London and the Home Counties.

I don't know any new mothers now but I thought that Health was devolved too and the responsibility of the Scottish Parliament.
Presumably care for the elderly and disabled is also devolved?

I do not understand your concerns about these matters which are the responsibility of the Scottish, not UK, Parliament.

If you read my post as I wrote it you would realise that I was contrasting the different government policies, attitudes and priorities. Holyrood cf Westminster.
Admittedly, GN does not represent the whole spectrum of English society but that was not implied by me. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that most/many members belong to the same demographic with similar family concerns.
I said that I sympathise with those in England who feel they or their families are in any way suffering under current policies. I do feel fortunate that we have a very different system and so I am willing to support that.
You are arguing against a case I did not put but if you are happy with your own environment that's fine. Many on GN seem to be less than happy with much of what is going on around them.
By having devolved government we are spared the worst excesses and I cannot see that we'd ever adopt flawed policies such as I see in the care, education and health sectors so I am not at all concerned that they might be imposed here.
I reiterate, I was simply pointing out the advantages of living in Scotland and not being 100% directed by Westminster.
I believe most respondents saw that without my having to offer such an explanation.

It is absolutely impossible to say whether we'll be better off in or out of the EU or the UK because there are so many variables and measures.

What I do know is that the polls are still not showing a swing in favour of Scottish independence and there is a decided lack of interest in another referendum up here amongst the majority non-nationalist populace. Sturgeon has announced this simply because the SNP conference takes place this weekend and she needs to feed the party stalwarts - knowing full well that there isn't sufficient support across Scotland and that the UK Govt will refuse to grant permission for another one. A win/win for all concerned.