Peers wanting to remove pensioners' benefits

I also age3 with the older people funding the local economies as said above. Our town centre is peopled by pensioners mainly a few mums with prams and the usual drunks and junkied each day. Take way the buse passes and many more shops will close

Maggiemaybe, well said.
My eldest brother who is 85 is really upset by the report, he participated in the consultation and cannot identify any of the views expressed by grassroots forums. He is particularly incensed by the infactual views from high earners and the likes of Taxpayers Alliance and other RW wing organisations.
The real benefits to the nation of so called benefit perks that help to keep pensioners active have in the main been ignored. Pension poverty is also almost ignored, instead the report continues to build a intergenerational divide, which is appalling.
How can so many high earners sit round a table and
produce such an important report without offering any real potential solutions to tackling key issues, such as adequate Care funding, loneliness and social isolation, pension poverty?
In addition, the need for adequate funding to meet the prevention support costs to help reduce the much higher costs on the NHS and Councils?
I wonder how much the Members of the Lords each claimed for their involvement in producing such a one-sided inaccurate report? They have come up with very few acceptable solutions, that are progressively feasible without causing more problems in late life for those living longer.

Martha the suggestions that the TPA gave to,the committee were rejected. It’s clearly stated in the report

Gracesgran, I completly agree, pay a decent pension and do away with add on but you would have the same problem people saying those with a second pension, however, small don't need such a high pension. I would love to have a pension of £1000 every month

Not so BOB, well, they could say it but once tried I think people would begin to see the plusses. I think it would help those with a tiny bit above the benefit level not to feel they have struggled for nothing. Often these feelings are not entirely the truth but it doesn't stop people feeling them.

People with additional income would be paying more tax as there would be no personal tax allowance - and it would be graduated in a way that meant they lost more and more of the initial amount until the top 20% lost it all - and still paid the tax they do now. You would get rid of many of the small and costly benefits and people would be less stressed. Living on benefits can be extremely stressful. Less stressed people tend to be better able to take care of themselves and contribute to the community. It almost seems as if some people feel that anyone receiving a benefit must be punished for needing it.

£1,000 a month is not huge but would be very welcome to those living on a basic pension at the moment. You would have to pay for some things that come as extras at the moment but it would be your choice. It would mean some additional disposable income, people more able to manage the upkeep of their homes and spending more in the community. It would certainly help the economy.

Kitty did you know that the wfp was originally given instead of a rise in the state pension? I did mention this some pages back. If it were added to the current pension it would save all this debate year on year and those who are in a position to would pay tax on it.

The disadvantage of a basic income is that if it were even a little more than the basic pension there would be many people who would choose not to save for a private pension. I know there are some who have never been able to do so but I'm thinking of the person I know who cashed in their pension at 55 in order to get maximum from the state when they retired.

Not sure about taking the extras from anyone paying tax but that may be because it is quite a while since we were really hard up. Is it possible to run a house, pay all the bills, eat and replace worn out household items on £12,500 a year? What is the average rent, council tax etc? I believe the average household fuel bill is about £1300 but maybe higher for someone housebound.

Means testing is not always taken up by people who need financial assistance. They may have problems filling in complex forms, or they may be too embarrassed to apply for additional benefits.

Whilst I appreciate the winter fuel allowance, we could manage without it - but it is a lifeline to others.

I would be extremely upset if we lost our travel passes. Again, we would manage without it but I feel sure we would be much less likely to make so many journeys. For people who have to be careful about what they spend, I feel quite sure that they would forfeit all but the most essential journeys. It is healthier to walk, of course, but if some distance has to be covered, the weather is awful or you do not have the same degree of energy or mobility as when younger, longer journeys require public transport or a car. If people become isolated in their homes their physical and mental health will deteriorate - and that has a cost also.

Additionally, people who can afford cars and, and the fuel to power them, will use them more frequently - to some degree cancelling out the ongoing efforts to cut down on pollution. That too has health and cost implications.

As others have said, not all pensioners are living comfortably. There was a report in The I today about the increasing numbers of pensioners who are renting privately (and this is predicted to increase significantly in the coming years). Most of them are paying at least 30% of their income on rent (and some as much as 60%) and have the same issues of insecure tenancies as younger people.

I find it extremely annoying that peers - many of whom come from very comfortable backgrounds and who are also the beneficiaries of the most generous allowances and additional perks - see fit to put forward these divisive proposals.

I do think that young people have a very rough deal but I feel more effort should be made to ensure that corporations and rich individuals pay their fair share of taxes. In my view, instead of cutting inheritance taxes they should have been raised and all "loopholes" to avoid them closed. Too much money is also being wasted on inefficient, and sometimes corrupt, private providers of public services.

I feel there is an attempt to pit one generation against the other in order to detract from the massive damage this government's austerity programme has done to the longterm prospects of this country and its inhabitants.

Yes nonnie, I did! As things stand, we dont need it but other people could benefit from my, and DH's, share.

Not all pensioners are living comfortably so why give people who are doing so extra when it could be better used else where.

I so agree, particularly with you final paragraph

Sorry ‘your’

I actually wholeheartedly agree Gracesgranmark3
We need a streamlined system, easy to implement, easy to understand and fair across the board.
There will always be some who disagree but it would be good to put our heads together and think of 2 or 3 fully explained options which could suit the vast majority of pensioners and send it via GNHQ to the HoL.
What do you think?

Oops! GracesGranMK3

Nonnie
Average fuel bills £1300?
Good grief.
Mine are between £350-400 G+E.
2 bed flat over two floors.
GCH + hob + combi boiler.
Normal electrics and elec oven plus usual kitchen aids but on business tariff locked in for 5 years.
If people are paying that amount then they must have heating on all day and live in a barn
How about downsizing to cut bills (and cleaning and housework etc)

When you cite 'young people', about whom are you talking? What age group(s)?

The divide between rich and poor has got too big. These uncaring people decide the fate of the rest of us. We all deserve the right to some sort of comfort in old age and not to have to watch every penny.

phantom12 I have just written something on those lines on "The embarrassment of the Tories" thread, which, I'm afraid I have helped to take a little off topic. Let me know what you make of my thinking.

Gabrielle Yes, average, as often stated during any news on fuel prices. You are not average in your fuel use but may have things like service charges which others don't have. In this discussion I have been talking about pensioners, not me. My concern is for others as we are clearly better off than many,

Gabriella you have told us many times about how cheap your fuel costs are, and I do not disbelieve you, but please be reminded that your situation of being billed at business rate by your landlord is most unusual. My house is extremely efficient, well insulated ( at great cost) but we spend around £100-130 per month which is fairly standard. Your repeated claims that everyone could live on a state pension if only they were less extravagant with their heating is rather unfair.

GillT57
I may have mentioned it twice, certainly not more than that, which is far far fewer repetitions of a statement than the vast majority of GNers post across all threads/subjects.
Yes, I have stated that living on the state pension IMV is doable but not if you add in Netflix or Sky packages, use a car regularly, have an expensive mobile contract, fibre broadband and don't negotiate lower energy bills. Why is it ok for people to say they find it hard to manage or are struggling yet not ok for me to mention on two different threads that it's possible to manage on a state pension?
What do you mean by saying it's not fair
Fair to whom and why?

It all seems to make sense what you say GracesGranMK3. It's a shame that the government don't seem to have the logic and common sense that you have. They are only interested in themselves and making sure that they have all that they want. They are not concerned about the rest of us.

Nonnie
I know the thread is about pensioners and I know that you were commenting in general terms and not about yourself.
I'm 74.5 so I qualify, as a pensioner, to post a comment regardless of income.
I'm sorry if I missed the part in the OP which said that only comments from poorer or struggling pensioners were welcome.
Another poster mentioned that the take up of pension credit was very low so I think that any comments about saving money by any means is a good thing. Not everyone negotiates the best deals as we often read or hear about on the news and it's often older people who get put on standard rates which cost far more.
Martin Lewis, as you surely know, is always encouraging and reminding us to look out for good deals in all financial areas.

gabriellaG, I did not mean you were forever talking about your energy costs, but whenever there is a thread about making ends meet or living on a pension you do come across as condemning others who spend more than you do on heat and power. I still maintain that your set up, lucky you, is very reasonable priced, but the truth is that most people spend far more than this and it is unfair to blame them for this. We are not talking about Sky or broadband here, but I agree that savings can be made by shopping around. But, nobody, unless they choose to keep their heating set far too low can heat their home for what you pay and I suggest you ask a few friends what they pay, my standing charge is nearly as much per month as you pay, and yes, I have shopped around, and yes, I have a very good unit price. By fair I mean it is unreasonable to suggest that your energy package is available to everyone, it isn't. Also, as you are renting, you do not factor in maintenance costs, worry about a new roof, broken gutters, etc, events which can be catastrophic for those 'just managing'.

Gabrielle all my friends check for the best deals every time their contract is coming to an end and some even come to me for advice on the best place to put their savings but none of them are really poor pensioners. One doesn't earn enough to pay tax but her DH does so she really isn't poor.

However, going back to my question how would someone living on £12,500 a year manage? I would be very interested to see what your breakdown of expenses would be based upon averages rather than personal.

Nonnie
For me to make comments using averages would be misleading as not every area can have the same providers or the same tariffs. Those who pay more would simply castigate me for making the average too low and vice versa.
Let me say that I live in an expensive area and I expect that tariffs are lower in areas where there are good transport links, plenty of businesses and a thriving economy, at least, that's what the big six say.
I'll be sure not to mention saving money again nor my views on pensions nor Brexit nor my shopping habits. Happy now? Good. The floor is yours.

Hi gabriellaG no need to 'leave the floor', we are just having a discussion about pensioner's benefits and living costs, and fuel costs came into it. For info, according to the Money advice service, the average cost of gas and electricity for a one person occupied two bedroom flat are £33 and £34 respectively.