Peers wanting to remove pensioners' benefits

I’m a couple of months off getting free travel on buses etc. I’ve always joked they will rescind scheme just before I get there. And look what’s being threatened!! Must be flipping psychic.

L'pool v Newc game starts soon.
YNWA. No apologies for going off thread.

Oh dear! Newc meant Huddersfield.

GabriellaG the figures you are talking about ( wealthy refugees versus impoverished pensioners) can frequently be found in BNP and Britain First and other such group's propaganda if you want to hold your nose and read the illiterate and inaccurate ramblings.

Anyone know why earlier retirees only get the basic pension (£129.20pw) and recent retirees get £168+ change pw?

That’s another yarn we’ve been spun, Gabriella. Few people get the full new “Universal” state pension because any opted out years don’t count towards it. Previously they did count towards the basic pension but not towards the additional earnings related element.Fortunately there’s a transition scheme in place - I’ll actually (when I’m 66) get a sum based on what I’ve accrued under the old scheme because from that I’ll get £23 more than the new scheme would entitle me to. Confused? Yes, we all are!

Enjoy the match - I’m rooting for Huddersfield.

I think we're all about pensions. As my mum would have said...it's a swizz.
Why on earth can't someone make it simpler?

GillT57
Oh dear! No, I'm certainly not going to look. Looking at iffy sites just means that Google continues to know you 'visited' and will bombard you with all sorts of stuff you don't want to be connected with.
Another GNer must have got the info from there.

Quite right gabriellag. I don't want to be bombarded with their lies and poison either!

I think things like bus passes, TV licences and gas payments should definitely be means tested. Whereas basic pension is paid for through tax and NI so should not be.

Gas payments?

I think the most stupid allowance is the 25p extra given on the age of 80. What can you buy with 25p? It has never altered.

but if all you need is athletes foot cream or paracetamol surely you wouldn't go to your GP for a prescription ? You'd buy it yourself from the chemist shop..like we do and most fol do.You wouldn't get past the receptionist if you said you needed a prescription for paracetamol or cream foor a sore foot.Thats just ridiculous.There are a huge number of people who DONT get benefits who are just a smigeon above the level and who still cant afford to pay for prescriptions.I ahve a friend who needs multiple prescriptions monthly who wouldn't bbe able to afford the cost if it was £9 an item as down south.It would literally be making a choice about which was the most necessary and which ones could wait another week.....now thats clearly not right .My local pharmacist says its the best thing to happen the "free" prescriptions because she used to dread people asking which ones would mean less harm if not taken

I’ve just spent some quiet time reading 10 pages of comments on this contentious topic. I was particularly interested as my younger son was discussing it with me this afternoon & we had a ‘lively’ conversation because he was using the sorts of generalisations that are popular in some of the tabloids. It’s a good thing we get on so well together.

I feel very sad that politicians have set the generations so against each other. As someone has already said it’s bad enough that Brexit has torn the country apart.

I worry that his generation - he is 39 -will not have adequate pensions. Both my sons are now on the housing ladder because I felt guilty that it was easier when I was young so I gave them my savings as deposits. A couple of friends have supported their children through University- our higher education was free.

I object to the suggestion that pensioner ‘perks’ should be removed. I think that dignity in retirement is important. And personally I find them very useful. I was a bit naive & found it a real shock that I have to budget quite so strictly since I retired. I had thought after working 45 years as a teacher that I’d be well off. (I know I’m much better off than loads of people, I’m not complaining).

Like many pensioners I try to give back by volunteering in a school, supporting the family with regular free childcare (especially in the school holidays) providing transport, helping pay for swimming lessons etc.etc. as loads of us do.

I think that it was unfortunate that the Lords, some of whom do excellent work scrutinising & improving bills before they are made law, have made such suggestions. Especially considering what they are paid...

But as another poster said, it will be political suicide especially for the Conservatives & Labour wouldn’t dare. So I think it might not happen if there is the outcry I think there will be.

Shame on the government whose spending decisions make it impossible for the young to afford housing or even to earn decent money...

It can also cost so much to do means testing, it is hardly worth it. What about those who would just miss out on getting it but their friends qualify and all meet up every week? Older people using bus passes for trips to shops, cafes etc also boost the economy in nearby towns/villages.
Folk are also physically and mentally better when they can get out for a while and interact with others - which can save money for NHS as well.
The means testing should really be done via a fair tax system and be designed to cover free bus travel etc for older people. If anyone feels they can manage without this financial help, they can always donate the money they would have spent to a reputable charity.
BTW So glad we also have free prescriptions in Scotland - a very wise decision by Scot Gov.

Peers get their £300+ allowances for signing a register. They don't have to stay in the House. That is a scandal and a total waste of people taxes. That House should be abolished.

Paddy - if your GP wrote you a prescription for athletes foot cream and it was free (or even the £3 that our prescriptions cost latterly) you may be inclined to take that prescription given that the cream costs more over the counter. You might think that people would just go to the pharmacy for these kinds of medications but the saving to the NHS since they’ve been removed from the list of medications that can be prescribed has been significant - suggesting that not everyone thinks the way you do.

Re the cost of multiple items - DH was in that position, he bought a multi item thingie and prescriptions didn’t cost anything like the £9 per item you mention.

Here we go again, granny bashing and stirring up trouble between young and old. Why not bring down the of travel so people can afford it. Also students can get discounted cars and I read somewhere that student accommodation pays no council tax. I have worked since I was 15 and 72 I am still paying tax, never claimed any benefit expect child allowance so why not have something back. If you don't want it don't apply for it or donate yo winter fuel allowance to charity.

Sorry you’re not getting the SP Barmey I’d suggest you go to Citizens Advice for help - it may be back dated

We shouldn't have to give it to charity. It should be in the pot for people who need it.

Means testing shouldn't be costly nowadays. We have systems that should link up so that, if I pay tax on my income, its fairly obvious that dont need all the other benefits - or some other system or criteria.

I agree Barmey granny bashing is designed to curry favour with the younger generation.

I do find it hard when people compare their free university education to having to pay today. When it was free it was for only about 5% of the population, now it is about 50% so much harder to fund. JC promised free university education for all at the last GE and only afterwards realised how much it would cost and said it was an aspiration. In principle I agree that education should be free but how would we pay for it? Everyone says they are in favour of more money going on NHS, education, roads, welfare etc. but when the LibDems campaigned for an extra penny on tax to help the NHS they were roundly defeated. It seems to be a different thing talking about it and voting for it.

Kittlester I don't see your reasoning that if you are paying tax then you don't need the other benefits. There are many people just over the tax limit who are on a tight budget. As for we shouldn't have to give to charity statement, I and I am sure many more, would rather give to to a charity than to the government to waste.

barmyoldbat I was just trying to point out that 'means testing' is an outdated concept. There are computer systems aplenty that can keep track of us and our wealth or lack of it. If I pay tax then I have more income than someone who doesnt pay tax - generally speaking.

Currently, we have pension credit that could be a useful indicator of whether a person needs various extras as mentioned. Or disability benefits could be a decider. My son, for example, gets PIP and, therefore, gets some of the other benefits that we are talking about but, also, free transport in our area. He qualifies for a disabled rail card, reduced rate at the gym, a free place for his pa at lots of events etc. He does not have to fill in a means assessment each time. There are computers nowadays.

If the money I get for wfp etc stayed in the pot there would be more for others.

I think it is misguided to think that charities dont waste income!

I understand where you are coming from Barmyoldbat. Earlier in the thread M0nica and I were having a discussion about how the pensions could/might be means tested. A step further forward from this could be old age Basic Income. Most countries are looking at a form of Basic Income and some have been trialed. It seems to me that Pensions are a good place to start. There are worries people have about this sort of system but fewer should arise with people who have reached state pension age.

I think the best way to explain would be to use an example. Say the level was decided to be £11,500. Each and every person on reaching a certain age, would get exact amount. Nothing more, nothing less.

They would not get a personal tax allowance or (obviously) any pension benefits that this level of income would exclude. They would not get the "add-ons" we have now. All income would be taxed but probably on a more gradual system at the lower end than we have now. The tax system would tax from zero and be incremental ensuring that, say, the top 20% of earners over this age would loose the whole of this amount in addition to their normal taxation.

The payment would be regular, weekly or four weekly as it is now, into the individuals account. It would be paid on an individual basis not a household one. There would be no means test: it would be unconditional. You would only have to be a citizen ( the government might decide on a period of that citizenship) to get it.

It would be funded from saved benefits - which could not include housing until we have more houses - and the increases in tax for high earners. It has much the same effect as means-testing but it cannot be taken away as there are basically no complicated rules to break - either by accident or design and an increased income would not affect it.

I’m really with you on this kitty. A system could be introduced if there was a political will. As a well,off pensioner, I absolutely know from evidence and experience that some pensioners are hard up. I get rather tired of those posters who refuse to believe that there are many very comfortable pensioners who should not be receiving WFA, BP and free TV.

I wholehartedly agee with the issue of bus passes. Many older people in poor health use cars to get to appointments. If they have their bus pass it would keep people from using their cars if they have an illness and maybe a danger on the road.
The issue of tv licences annoys me. Im coming up to 65 and it does not affect me yet but i see a lot of older folk who have family living in who are watching free tv. It should be means tested and if their are workers or younger people in the house then they should pay. I agree that for those living alone the tv will be their only company.
I also agree that money needs to be spent on young people who cant get jobs or housing. Its a complicated issue