Peers wanting to remove pensioners' benefits

Phoebes I thing GGMK3 is being very harsh and misunderstanding your message. You are not alone, many of us were denied university education, come from poor backgrounds but have worked very hard for everything with no "help and good luck along the way." Such an assumption, imo, could only come from someone who doesn't understand the sheer hard work and sacrifice some of us made. Some of us had two jobs, couldn't afford heating and learnt how to feed a family on next to nothing.

It is very hard to then be told we are privileged because we have our own homes and a state pension which we paid for. Some of us also have private pensions we paid for with money we didn't spend on things we could do without. Smileless appears to think that only needy pensioners should get money from the state. If that were the case there would be people who didn't pay into private schemes. We need to think of the unexpected outcomes of any change of policy.

marye should I take it you have no answer to my question? What would you replace the triple lock with?

Would the young need so much help if they were able to access decent housing at a fair cost? Spot on CarlyD7

I can see what you are saying MOnica but what do you raise it to? I found the list of the "maximum" that people can receive really thought provoking - and not just in a "we want more because they get it" way but simply in a this is the most and that is received by the poorest.

So, the first thing to work out is where you would set Pension Credit level to do away with the need for the "bits and pieces". When looking at a Basic Income policy people often use the Personal Tax allowance. As the figures I gave for "other countries" were 2018/19 the PTA for this year was £11,500. I have my concerns that that is enough to live on AND pay for all the things covered by other benefits including Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit. You would need a generally lower amount if CTB became a local income tax. The French, as we saw, pay a maximum of £15,808. That might encompass CTB. I am a great believer in paying your council tax rather than having a benefit, even if it is paid to you by one hand and taken by the other. It is very undemocratic if people become unaware of what everyone else is paying. To encompass housing I think you would have to go up into the range of Spain and Germany, i.e., £26,676 to £26,364. It may be interesting to note that the cap on Universal Credit for a single person without children (which includes CTB and HB) is £13,400.

Let's say we chose one of these - let's go for £13,400 for the sake of argument. You would then, de facto have a semi-means tested pension. Anyone not claiming, whatever their income, would get the base rate. On the old pension (pre 2016) this would be £6,550.44 p.a., and on the new one it would be £8,546.20. Is this what you were thinking? I am not sure where the money would come from to pay for all the rise in Pension Credit - a great deal from not having to pay other benefits of course, but I have a feeling the base rates would begin to be frozen but possible not until the new Workplace pension starts to pay out and I am not sure if older workers are paying in to that.

By the way, nice to have a proper discussion about what might be possible.

Most of us have worked hard, paid our taxes and NI. So many young people don’t start work until they’re in their late 20’s having had the benefit of a university education, while most of us started working and paying taxes etc in our teens, I think we’ve earned the few ‘perks’ that we get now.

Would the young need so much help if they were able to access decent housing at a fair cost? Some of them now spend around 50-60% of their incomes just on their rent. Or, they've got £30,000+ of debt hanging around their necks because of tuition fees. I don't think the elderly should be penalised because politicians have got so many things wrong in our society. Interesting how the government is able to find millions of ££ to "bribe" the DUP with (for Northern Ireland) but somehow none to make things better for the young. Disgraceful to set different generations against each other like this.

I was looking forward to getting a bus pass as my friend who lives in Romford qualified for a Bus Pass, but unfortunately as we live in Braintree under the Chelmsford County Council I don't receive a bus pass untill I get my pension which is now moved to 66 1/2.

Feel thoroughly depressed about the possibility of not getting a bus pass. I look after my Grandaughter two days a week and was looking forward to bus trips with her. I currently use my car to go anywhere and would like to use it less, but it costs £3 round trip just to go a couple of stops. It costs half that in my car! I thought there was an imperative to stop people using their cars.

GGMK3 I heard that too and felt it was one of the more reasonable discussions on the BBC. Pitting one group against another is only going to cause problems. We are all people not projects.

notanan "Phones are not a luxury any more." I agree but the young do seem to have very expensive contracts and very expensive phones. Surely all that is necessary is an Android phone from which to makes calls and messages as well as being able to Google. You don't need to pay very much for that.

G54 I think the use of a bus pass is charged to the LA, not government.

If the free TV licence is to continue I think it should apply only to all pensioner households. Where granny lives with a working age family I don't think they should get it free on her eligibility. I'm not sure if that would save enough to keep it going, but I'd say it's worth a look.

Surely if the Pension Credit level was raised for poorest pensioners to compensate for the loss of all the little extras tat should be OK. I am one who, even with increased PC would lose the lot without any compensation and I am not complaining.

How come nobody has mentioned that the Government have already ditched free TV licences?

From next June, they won't be paying for them any more, and it will be up to the BBC whether or not they continue the scheme. They held a consultation recently (which I took part in), asking people whether they preferred the whole scheme to continue as it is, to only be available to those on low incomes, or be scrapped entirely, pointing out that any money spent on it would come out of programming budgets.

The consultation is now closed, but I haven't heard whether the BBC have come to any conclusion on the matter.

I thought as much travels . My dad is 81 and uses the buses a fair bit, usually to fill some time in during the day or meet up with “the lads” for a drink, although I do worry as he is quite unsteady on his feet of late. He relies on me for shopping, hospital appointments etc. He always says he feels almost embarrassed to be getting on a bus full of others all travelling for free and would much rather pay a token 50p -£1 per trip.

I agree with Cherrytree all these perks will be gradually phased out just in time for those of us being robbed of retiring at 60 and having to wait another 7+ years to claim our state pensions.

No existing recipients should lose the bus pass?

Another kick in the teeth for WASPIs then.

I haven't read the whole thread, but suggest that instead of doing away with bus passes altogether, why not make a small charge, say, £1 for every journey?

As has been said already, regarding the tv licence, there are those for whom this is a lifeline. Taking it away would cause real hardship in some cases.

I must say I'd support the suggestion that the Lords should manage on the State Pension for a period of time. Let's make it a qualification for the HoL!

The repor’s recommendations say that no existing recipients would lose the WFA or BP but that eventually they should only be available from 5 years after SPA. They do not suggest means testing them but tha taxing them should be considered.

gillybob in response to your question about using the buses if i had to pay 50p, yes i would, that seems a reasonable amount to me and manageable i should have thought for most people.

It’s a bit much that the HoL, which is basically a club for rich pensioners, wants to remove benefits from others who are much worse off than themselves. Taking away free travel would mean many would just get in their cars, increase pollution and be the death of many already poo bus services. What is “a rich pensioner” anyway?, if we use the measure of those who come into the higher income tax bracket, then that’s only about 10% of pensioners.

Oops! *probably did.

Witzend
I think that it's because we senior citizens have (in the main) contributed more taxes during our lives.
That's why younsters don't get pensions either.
We saved for what we needed.
Young people nowadays hsve tbe latest phones, Sky tv or Netflix, cars...you name it.
They can't have things as they were in the 1960s onwards any more than we could have then, the stuff they have now.
Live within your means.
Get a better job or study for extra qualifications.
Don't have children if you can't comfortably afford to do so.
All things that we and our parents probably.

I agree M0nica particularly with the "pat on the head" extras. I just can't see how we get round making it means tested in order to give those that need it a better base amount. It is spreading it so thinly that means (I assume) that it is so low. In the Australian system both income and assets are taken into account with the exception of your home when calculating what you will get.

Nonnie I've just come back onto this thread so haven't been ignoring your question posted at 16.26.

No, of course I don't think that all pensioners should receive nothing from the government. I do think that the money should go to those who need it.

Mr. S. receives free prescriptions, could have a free bus pass and next year I think, will be entitled to winter fuel allowance. We are fortunate that we don't need this assistance and I would prefer more to go to those who really need it.

i am absolutely in agreement with the House of Lords, I have been advocating the abolition of all the pensioner bells and whistles, including free prescriptions since I reached retirement age 15 years ago and realised they existed. They are demeaning, suggesting we can not be trusted to spend our money wisely but need to be given lots of ring fenced specifics. BUT, I have also always advocated that when this is done the minimum income level for Pension credit should be increased to compensate the poorest pensioners for this loss of benefits. As this will bring into the Pension Credit people who do not qualify for it at present, this benefit will gradually taper out and people like me with an adequate income will lose all these extras with no compensation and I am quite happy with that.

I am sorry to say Phoebes but it does sound as if, while very prepared to join all those who start by telling us how hard you have worked all you life you have no insight whatsoever to the fact that others will have work just as hard, possibly harder, suffered just as many privations, possibly more and yet ended their lives with much, much less through no fault of their own and that everyone who is in your position will have had some help and good luck along the way.

The justification that you and others put forward is simply an excuse to say that you are not prepared to help those who have not been as lucky as you. At least people could be honest about this.

I have friends who received their free bus pass a sixty.
I will have to wait until 67.
I help to care for grandchildren, to enable their parents to work to pay their mortgage bills etc.
Until recently I also cared for my MIL.
So although not able to draw my state pension for another seven years, I cannot work and provide the necessary family help.

I would have found a bus pass extremely helpful as I share a car with my DH
The local bus fare is eye watering for just a couple of miles.

I am thankful that of this month, I now receive free prescriptions as have to take several types medication and use creams.

We are not in a postion to say that free bus passes, prescriptions would not have been help to us.

We do not claim any benifits and would not be entitled to pension credit.
We sadly fall into the grey area where if the system was changed we would no longer be entitled to the so called pensioner perks.

I like Gilly have lost a state pension of about £40,000, any new laws will probably only affect the people who are having to wait for their state pension, so a double whammy!

I really resent the Peers suggesting that pensioners should lose their perks. I bet they claim all their allowances if they are of pension age!
I think we have earned our pensions and our little perks like bus passes. I worked really hard all my life as a teacher. I bought my first tiny studio flat with a local council mortgage, and it was a real struggle to pay it on my own, especially when the council decided that the council mortgage was unaffordable, so I had to switch to a building society mortgage, which was an even worse struggle. At one stage I was teaching a few evening classes and Saturdays in the market, as well as a full-time teaching job, which I took very seriously. It was hard, but I wanted to get on the housing ladder and the part of the country where we live is very expensive. I had no help at all from my parents buying my flat.
When I met my husband, neither of us had any money, but we both worked and saved really hard and now we are comfortably off. We managed to pay for our daughter to have a private education, and we could do this because we only had one child.
When my parents died we were able to move up the housing ladder a bit with my small inheritance, but I feel proud of the fact that we achieved what we have by both working extremely hard and going without. Now we both have reasonable pensions, which we paid into because we were sensible and saved. Our daughter and her husband both have good jobs in New York and they have followed our example by buying a very small flat in Manhattan, which has been a struggle, but well worth-while.
Now we are finally able to spend however long we have left enjoying ourselves, there is a threat of most of the things that make it possible being taken away! This is the first time in our lives we ha.ve been able to treat ourselves without having to count every penny.
Any party that does this will definitely lose the grey vote. As for the Lords, what useful purpose do they fulfil???