Peers wanting to remove pensioners' benefits

My mother had a bus pass when I was younger, poorer and raising a family, I paid bus and train tickets for work etc. and I never once begrudged my mother or any other pensioner this or any other benefit. I was pleased for her she had earned it and knew eventually I too would retire (thank goodness). I worked continuously for 47years, put plenty into the social kitty and have taken very little out, a bit of family allowance and now my pension. There were fewer benefits available then. Yes a few did get a free university education, however the majority did not and like me (who went nursing at 16) learned whilst working and on a night out used to share a Barley wine, the height of extravagance.

Many other countries do have means tested pensions Witzend. Our State pension is so low by comparison to countries who are similar in wealth to us. The highest state pension payable per annum (2017/18) is:

UK £7,332
Germany £26,364
France £15,808
Spain £26,676

It sort of puts things in perspective doesn't it.

GGMK3 - I stand by my comments. Why should those who have chosen to move to another country, not paying anymore into the UK system, get the benefits?
I’m not judging but making an informed opinion on the peers wanting to take away our valued ‘perks’. I am able to use my central heating (not air conditioning in summer) in winter and know that I have a financial cushion in receiving the fuel allowance.

Both me and DH fully expect to work until we die notanan .

We have very good public transport, and I'm quite sure that around here, bus passes keep an awful lot of cars off the roads and out of the car parks. So that's one advantage of them.
Dh and I use ours a lot less since we had the passes, which in London also cover Tube and train after 9.30.

However I do often feel it's very unfair that we, who frankly could afford to pay, get free travel, when young people struggling to pay rent/mortgage/childcare costs, don't.

I suspect that eventually they'll be means tested.

Granless People in Australia have their pension frozen when they go there don't they and who is to say that air conditioning isn't just as important to life as heat in some cases. Surely, if it was income related you would know that those who are well above needing it (as I said 80% of Australians get some or all of their pension) would not get it. It really shouldn't be for us to judge it just sets one group against another.

It’s ridiculous to suggest that the Lords shouldn’t get an allowance. However, in an ideal world, I believe it should be further reformed. The report they have produced could just have easily been produced by the Commons but they’ve been rather absorbed by other matters. It’s right and proper that the plight of the younger generation should be investigated and suggestions put forward. There are plenty of pensioners who do not need these extra benefits and there is absolutely no ethical argument for the triple lock.

Oh I wish we could vote to reduce the House of Lords daily Allowance to just £1 a day.
Tell them it's a vocational thing...do it for love or bog off.
How dare they make poor people even worse off

Apart from the cost to the government of renewing your bus pass (which is only every 5 years) and can be done, painlessly, at any library including photos if necessary) the only other cost are your fares paid to whichever bus company you use.
Those who don't apply for one do not cost the government anything and the ones who do apply but never use them don't cost the government anything other than the cost of issuing the card which is minimal and only every 5 years.
If they don't renew then gov is not out of pocket.
It's only costing gov if it's used.

Straight to the point. Stop winter fuel allowance overseas for a start. My English friend in Oz says she has to pay for air-conditioning in summer - hello! Also she draws a British state pension.
Bus pass must be kept. It’s a ticket to life outside the house and a lifeline to visiting friends who live some way away.
TV licence. Now then, I don’t think it should be free to us oldies. Maybe reduced?
Government- sort out the leeches who don’t work but can. Make them work in the community for their benefits. Pensioners have to pay to have their grass cut.

GabriellaG54 I think you would hit a phasing issue. Currently there are benefits that those who receive Pension Credit receive additionally as a right. Pension Credit is a "gateway" benefit. There are those who are just above Pension Credit who may receive some of these as a right - such a Cold Weather Payments or you may have to claim, such as Warm Home Discount and/or some or all of some of their National Health payments via the National Health Low Income Scheme.

I imagine some of those who are just above Pension Credit and can claim some of the above would find heating their homes much more difficult if the cut off point was at Pension Credit level and they didn't get the WFA. Equally those just above Pension Credit would probably struggle without their bus pass. I cannot see that you could do what you suggest without making some people very much worse off and worse off than those on Pension Credit.

The UK State Pension is extremely low by comparison to other countries of comparative wealth but it is universal and it is topped up by benefits. We may have to look at both of these and at the systems used elsewhere.

Being "off grid" is an unattainable bourgeois luxury nowadays.

Its a different world. Being without a smart device would be a false economy for most people.

Me? I need to work. I need to get over time notifications. Getting rid of my phone would cost me THOUSANDS in missed overtime!

I appreciate what you are saying Kittylester but it is infuriating to witness my ‘skint’ v younger persons ‘skint’
*Priorities are a whole different level.
Mobile phones and all that come with them.*
We didn’t even have a house phone until no3 baby came along.

yawn

Phones are not a luxury any more. Priorities have to change with the times. It is pretty hard to get or keep a job these days if you are not connected. You have to be independantly wealthy to have the luxury of NOT needing a phone these days...

TBH wouldnt surprise me if they wanted to remove PENSIONS from pensioners, making people qualify by some sort of PIP style assessment, and if you are deemed fit to work you work till you die...

..... so sadly not surprised..

Just listened to a discussion on PM, Radio 4 and the two interviews ended up agreeing that there were poor young and old and rich young and old and those who were in the middle in both generations. Good to hear. Listening I got the impression that the report may have been put in a way that allowed the Tories to say they were going to include the older rich in taxes as well as the younger rich. Far more sensible than some of the reports in the newspapers.

Does anyone in the House of Lords even know the price of a loaf etc. Do they ever have to travel by bus? Our pensions are stretched to the limits as they are. Many of us are on a very limited budget - do they have very little to live on? - I think not!! Some of them will be living in their country manor (at weekends of course) as during the week the will be claiming expenses for their London flat (living allowance and mileage travel allowance to get there and back).

Its very hard to have things - anything - taken away. The use of a bus pass has been factored into many a budget. Same with the WFA and the lack of payment for a tv licence.

There is always an arbitrary line for means tested benefit of any kind which will leave a group of people just outside of the line. I would suggest those who do not need a bus pass or a free tv licence simply refrain from claiming them. No administrative cost involved.

The WFA would be more complex, perhaps only payable to those who do not pay the higher rate of income tax or perhaps a need to claim annually for those who choose to.

Its a complex issue. While I don't have an answer, I would ask that everyone, including those privileged people instigating this report, try to imagine themselves in the shoes of others before believing they understand their reality.

Thanks Pudding123

That sounds like a plan GG54 can't be too difficult to implement if the will was there.

If Conservative or Labour want to lose the next General Election put that in their manifesto, stop bus passes, free tv licenses, make pensioners pay prescription charges.

As I have said before several weeks/ months ago, the government could package the lot, including a free 'pass' tv licence into one payment via the guarantee element of pension credit which only gets paid to people who don't have the full state pension. It could be part and parcel of the benefits allocated to those claim pension credit. The winter fuel allowance of £200 is more than generous and covers Nov-March when the weather gets warmer. £50pm is very generous in my view.
I can buy a day rider bus ticket for £7.50 which I'd happily afford but for those on a basic pension or minimum wage it would be unaffordable on a daily basis.
A card showing a code which is peculiar to each beneficiary could be issued and that could be used to prove your entitlement.
I don't know...someone with a better knowledge of how it could be implemented needs to work on it.

The bus passes don’t have to be free to be a good idea - my rail card isn’t free and neither are my rail tickets but they are good value. Anyway no government will touch these unfair pensioner benefits - much better to leave schools under resourced don’t you think?

Ahhh buses - that would be nice.

Research conducted by KPMG found that for every pound spent on the bus pass, £2.87 was produced in benefits to bus pass users and to the wider economy. It demonstrates the additional economic, social and environmental value of the bus pass by: supporting volunteers and carers, encouraging spending in shops, reducing congestion and pollution and improving the health and well being of older people who use buses.

That’s the report I saw, grannyactivist. Why would anyone with an ounce of financial nous or concern for the environment think that stopping the free pass would benefit anyone, young or old? There simply aren’t any savings to be made!

I appreciate what you are saying Kittylester but it is infuriating to witness my ‘skint’ v younger persons ‘skint’
Priorities are a whole different level.
Mobile phones and all that come with them.
We didn’t even have a house phone until no3 baby came along. No car until FiL gave us his old one - a banger. Second hand furniture until saved for new one. It seems today that everything is wanted on a silver platter - now!!! My first holiday abroad I was 33 and that was a cheap one because someone couldn’t make it. We were careful and prioritised.
Now, aged 62, we are heads just above water. So because we are not destitute (small 3 bed semi) no mortgage, no debt - no savings. OH 12 years younger than me works all hours to pay for everything. Just as you think ‘ going to have a bit of breathing space this week - radiator on his works van plays up!!!
So, would we be classed as needy or not?
No pension has exacerbated my anxiety (not able to contribute to income) and my depression (feeling useless and a burden)
We have no tv contracts. Basic broadband for wireless. OH gets my phone when Jo’s is beyond useless.
Bring on the court case. I hope we win.
MPs on all that money and they get subsidies, expenses, money to money and it makes them greedy. I don’t want anything for nothing. I started working at 15. Gave 14 years voluntary as a special constable. 5 years with victim support taking care of rape sex abuse victims and families of murdered. And now at the twilight of my years I have nothing to enjoy. £48,000 plus is what I am missing because of no pension. My DH doesn’t get birthday card and pays for his own present.
We are not in poverty of which I am thank ful but my goodness. It just doesn’t feel fair.