Peers wanting to remove pensioners' benefits

Feel thoroughly depressed about the possibility of not getting a bus pass. I look after my Grandaughter two days a week and was looking forward to bus trips with her. I currently use my car to go anywhere and would like to use it less, but it costs £3 round trip just to go a couple of stops. It costs half that in my car! I thought there was an imperative to stop people using their cars.

I was looking forward to getting a bus pass as my friend who lives in Romford qualified for a Bus Pass, but unfortunately as we live in Braintree under the Chelmsford County Council I don't receive a bus pass untill I get my pension which is now moved to 66 1/2.

Would the young need so much help if they were able to access decent housing at a fair cost? Some of them now spend around 50-60% of their incomes just on their rent. Or, they've got £30,000+ of debt hanging around their necks because of tuition fees. I don't think the elderly should be penalised because politicians have got so many things wrong in our society. Interesting how the government is able to find millions of ££ to "bribe" the DUP with (for Northern Ireland) but somehow none to make things better for the young. Disgraceful to set different generations against each other like this.

Most of us have worked hard, paid our taxes and NI. So many young people don’t start work until they’re in their late 20’s having had the benefit of a university education, while most of us started working and paying taxes etc in our teens, I think we’ve earned the few ‘perks’ that we get now.

I can see what you are saying MOnica but what do you raise it to? I found the list of the "maximum" that people can receive really thought provoking - and not just in a "we want more because they get it" way but simply in a this is the most and that is received by the poorest.

So, the first thing to work out is where you would set Pension Credit level to do away with the need for the "bits and pieces". When looking at a Basic Income policy people often use the Personal Tax allowance. As the figures I gave for "other countries" were 2018/19 the PTA for this year was £11,500. I have my concerns that that is enough to live on AND pay for all the things covered by other benefits including Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit. You would need a generally lower amount if CTB became a local income tax. The French, as we saw, pay a maximum of £15,808. That might encompass CTB. I am a great believer in paying your council tax rather than having a benefit, even if it is paid to you by one hand and taken by the other. It is very undemocratic if people become unaware of what everyone else is paying. To encompass housing I think you would have to go up into the range of Spain and Germany, i.e., £26,676 to £26,364. It may be interesting to note that the cap on Universal Credit for a single person without children (which includes CTB and HB) is £13,400.

Let's say we chose one of these - let's go for £13,400 for the sake of argument. You would then, de facto have a semi-means tested pension. Anyone not claiming, whatever their income, would get the base rate. On the old pension (pre 2016) this would be £6,550.44 p.a., and on the new one it would be £8,546.20. Is this what you were thinking? I am not sure where the money would come from to pay for all the rise in Pension Credit - a great deal from not having to pay other benefits of course, but I have a feeling the base rates would begin to be frozen but possible not until the new Workplace pension starts to pay out and I am not sure if older workers are paying in to that.

By the way, nice to have a proper discussion about what might be possible.

Would the young need so much help if they were able to access decent housing at a fair cost? Spot on CarlyD7

Phoebes I thing GGMK3 is being very harsh and misunderstanding your message. You are not alone, many of us were denied university education, come from poor backgrounds but have worked very hard for everything with no "help and good luck along the way." Such an assumption, imo, could only come from someone who doesn't understand the sheer hard work and sacrifice some of us made. Some of us had two jobs, couldn't afford heating and learnt how to feed a family on next to nothing.

It is very hard to then be told we are privileged because we have our own homes and a state pension which we paid for. Some of us also have private pensions we paid for with money we didn't spend on things we could do without. Smileless appears to think that only needy pensioners should get money from the state. If that were the case there would be people who didn't pay into private schemes. We need to think of the unexpected outcomes of any change of policy.

marye should I take it you have no answer to my question? What would you replace the triple lock with?

I do wish well off pensioners would stop telling the world how well off they are! They are just making the case for the government.

Such an assumption, imo, could only come from someone who doesn't understand the sheer hard work and sacrifice some of us made.

Just who is making the assumptions here Nonnie . You have no idea of my life as I have no idea of yours.

However, the benefits of any scheme are not paid out for what you consider to be good behaviour. It is insurance in case things do not turn out as we hope. Insurance is the most co-operative thing most people ever do. It seems some people don't want to be co-operative.

We all pay in and then those who need it, be it for a car accident, an illness or low income, draw out. I am not at all in favour of the idea that we draw on an insurance because we were good little boys and girls. It is infantilising the population who then, if they don't get what they expect blame mummy and daddy (the government) we all have to grow up sometime and realise we don't get rewarded just for what we consider to be "good behaviour". That, in my mind, is quite ridiculous.

DH and I are seething. There are a lot of very very rich retired people who claim state pension who don’t need it, can afford to pay their tv licence etc. Most of us are having to struggle and watch where every penny goes.
It makes me sick and angry we have all worked I have worked since I was 15 so has my dh, we are retired and want to enjoy ourselves. Yet we are being constantly picked on.All of us on here have worked hard and we deserve a decent comfortable retirement.

I believe that a more cost-effective way to fill the nation's coffers, which despite years of austerity seem to be sadly depleted, would be to pass laws to ensure that companies and corporations pay their fair share of tax. Of course, young people's services need money, as does the NHS, Education etc. It's not going to be found by depriving some older people on low incomes of really quite small benefits.

Yes, I'm aware of that, GracesGran. An Australian friend of 80 who is comfortable, but by no means rolling in it, receives no state pension at all.

People in Germany have traditionally mostly rented instead of buying their homes (I gather that is beginning to change) whereas until fairly recently in the U.K. a good percentage of people owned their homes and would normally have paid off their mortgages by the time they retired. (Yes, I am well aware that not everyone has managed to buy or to pay off their mortgage before retirement.).

But that - the need for most to continue paying rent - may partly account for higher pensions in Germany. I gather that many German rental,properties are owned by pension funds anyway, which may perhaps be relevant.

GGMK3 your post at 20.20 on 25th.

So you are suggesting that the NI we pay should not necessarily pay a pension? Why not? We were promised it would so reneging on that promise is OK? If we pay into an endowment insurance it pays out on maturity, just like the state pension.

Has it occurred to any of you who want to remove these payments what the effect would be? Worse for the environment, worse for others who want to use the daytime public transport, old people stuck in their homes in the cold with nothing to do and therefore becoming a drain on the NHS and all for what? To punish those who have provided for their old age because some young people 'need' things we could only dream of! No incentive to save for their old age, just let the state provide for them. It has already started with people taking their private pensions at 55 so they will get state help when they retire.

We are not well off pensioners by any means . We both receive the State Pension , and small occupational pensions having worked hard all our lives . I do not drive and use the buses frequently collecting DGC ,shopping and other every day activities . I would be strapped financially if I had to pay , but would be happy to pay say £30 a year for a free bus pass . Many buses would discontinue without us oldies and thus isolating us even more . We have a little " hopper" bus that is a lifesaver for many, as the lovely drivers will stop on any corner to pick up and drop off ..
TV licences could be half price for the elderly who live alone and free if on pension credit or housebound .I do know of a number of well off multigenerational families who get free TV .Mind you they are saving the NHS / social services a fortune in caring for their relatives !
I am outraged that those in the House of Lords who no doubt use their state pension as "sweetie money" and have private chauffeurs can suggest such things .

This is another example of getting groups to attack each other rather than see the bigger picture. Also an example of the growing inequality in the UK since George Osborne's austerity policies set in.

I had to wait 2 extra years for my state pension but despite full contributions and paying an arguable top up, I still get less than my husband!! Nevertheless, we run a tight ship and manage our money and would be prepared to pay for prescriptions, a bus pass, etc.

The question of means testing is always what level it should be set at, how you manage fraud and deception and ensuring that those entitled know and are helped to apply. The bedroom tax and universal credit don't inspire confidence. Will those disabled people deprived of income, who have ended up dying, sometimes by their own hand, be joined by numbers of pensioners?!

The most recent raising of the state pension change was by George Osborne, who said in 2013 to the Global Investment Conference
"I’ve found it one of the less controversial things we’ve done and probably saved more money than anything else we’ve done.”

SPA, BP?
maryeliza54
Please stop putting all these acronyms into your comments.
Some of them are not on the GNHQ website.

The Lords get £300.00p per day just for clocking in alone. Plus travel expenses. Plus subsidised bars. Plus subsidised dining room.

As the Jobseekers Allowance is (I believe) still stick at £73.10p per week for a single adult and is to cover utility bills, a percentrage of council tax, travel expenses, food, clothing, telephone and emergencies then let us see our high & mighty Lordships existing on that......

Couldn't agree more. These narrow minded ignoramus! In this country we exist on a pension not live on it.. The increase is an insult as everything has gone up far more than the pension increase. Only yesterday I had a letter from Scottish Power informing me that they are increasing my DD by twenty pounds a month!

The bus pass is a lifeline to so many people and it helps boost the footfall on the High Street. I know a couple who use their bus pass to go out somewhere every day, Living in a rural area they often take a bus that goes up to the coast via the scenic route. They have a coffee or two on arrival, sometimes they shop a little then they have lunch. With the help of their bus pass they are helping to support the local shops and eating places. Probably keep some of the bus drivers in a job?

We are told that loneliness is the cause of many deaths and illnesses. Many are going to become more isolated without their bus pass. This will have a knock on effect on the NHS and other over stretched services.

With regards to the TV licence how many young people actually watch TV? It's phones, I pad, monitors etc!

These 'educated' peers don't look at the larger picture.

I've never used my bus pass and, if I want to watch tv, it shouldn't be up to the tax payer to fund it. What does make me cross is that state pension is about £8000 a year but a refugee who has made a successful claim to stay here and, who has never make made any financial contributions to the country, can get about £25,000 per annum. Look it up; that can't be fair at all.

I'm in a rural area with expensive bus fares, I don't drive. Born in 1954, I've waited 5 years longer for my state pension than I was led to believe. I was nearly in tears yesterday when I read that I might lose free travel. I would become very isolated. Fortunately I can apply for the pass early next month and will do so before they have a chance to snatch away this lifeline. I'm horrified by what the current HoL has become. They are no longer fit for purpose and need to be abolished.

Yes, I'm aware of that, GracesGran

Aware of what Whitsend? The conversation move quite quickly and it's difficult to know without a quote as reference.

Hmm, I survive on less than £800/month! My rent 8s £550.00 so you can do the maths on that.

Suggestion, if the peers and lords are so intent on hitting pensioners, us, the6 should reduce the £300.00 /day they earn for just turning up at the h9use of lords! And most of them sleep through the session.
Just making a point.

Using my bus pass means that I don't drive so much, so doing my bit not to pollute the atmosphere. Surely encouraging people to use public transport is a good thing? I agree with all those who have said that for some people the chat at the bus stop or on the bus is vital social contact.

We are fortunate not to need the winter heating allowance, so we give to to local charities helping the homeless. If you don't need it, you don't need to keep it. I believe I read somewhere that the bureaucracy which would be needed to allow people to opt out would cost more than the actual benefit costs.

This always gets 'run up the flagpole' when an election is in the offing to see which way public opinion reacts. Traditionally 'taking' anything from pensioners (i.e. not giving them something they'd got used to receiving) has been political suicide.