Peers wanting to remove pensioners' benefits

SPA = state pension age
WFA = winter fuel allowance

It would probably cost a good deal to pay people to do the work of means testing. I also think it would be unfair to take away the benefits of those who saved for their retirement, possibly by paying a higher ‘stamp’. I have worked most of my life in the NHS and before that in the RAF. I get no pension from my RAF service because I only did five years, not nine or more, I have heard other retired NHS staff complaining about only having their state pension but, this was because they chose to pay a married woman’s contribution rather than pay a full contribution. I now get a reasonable NHS pension but only because I went without while working.

BP = bus pass

The reporting of this report has been full of scaremongering and misleading . It is a report with recommendations not a Bill. Even if there was a political will to implement it, the earliest date mentioned in the report is mid 2020s and given everything that is going on, that’s a pipe dream. It makes perfect sense to align the WFA and BP with the SPA - why on earth should they be 60? The TV licence is 75. No logic at all. I do think the triple lock might eventually go and so it should - all benefits should be updated annually by the same measure - either in line with earnings or cost of living. It’s completely wrong to treat the SP differently from the majority of other benefits.

I also think it’s sad that so many of you don’t understand the amount of really good work that goes on in the Lords. Whilst I think it should be elected ( and only the Tories are against an elected chamber) the number of hereditary peers has been slashed ( thank god) and there is a large group of absolutely excellent cross- benchers. I particularly follow Tanni GT and her sterling work on disability issues, especially fighting for accessible public transport. She works incredibly hard and at £300 a day is underpaid. In recent years the Lords have also done good work in challenging, improving and revising some of the very shoddily written Bills thst have come before them. I think second chambers are an excellent part of a parliamentary system and even with its current shortcomings, we’ve been better off with it than without it.

Meant to add I don’t understand why the WFA and BP should kick in 5 years after SPA - that’s just bonkers imo

I am trying to unravel this Nonnie, so perhaps better done bit by bit.

So you are suggesting that the NI we pay should not necessarily pay a pension?

NI does not pay for your pension. It is merely another tax that goes into the larger tax pot. The amount you pay is also described as being for all working age benefits. Do you really believe that it goes into a pot that you, personally can draw upon?

Why not? We were promised it would so reneging on that promise is OK? If we pay into an endowment insurance it pays out on maturity, just like the state pension.

We have never been promised any such thing. Perhaps it is just what you have chosen to believe? If it worked like an endowment we should have had a statement each year and the government would never be able to change it. It is tax. It certainly pays towards the provision of pension benefits in general but your payments are not exclusively for your benefit.

Has it occurred to any of you who want to remove these payments what the effect would be? Worse for the environment, worse for others who want to use the daytime public transport, old people stuck in their homes in the cold with nothing to do and therefore becoming a drain on the NHS and all for what?

I am not suggesting, nor did I ever suggest, they just remove the payments the Lords talked about. I did suggest (possibly in other posts you did not bother to read) that they totally overhaul the pension system so that people could pay for their public transport, heat their home and not become isolated. I am not sure why you think I was agreeing with what the Lords said? If you stopped being just angry and read what I have posted you would realise you have got the wrong end of the stick.

To punish those who have provided for their old age because some young people 'need' things we could only dream of! No incentive to save for their old age, just let the state provide for them. It has already started with people taking their private pensions at 55 so they will get state help when they retire

If you think your income is in the top 20% I, personally, would suggest a means-tested system and yes, in that case you would not receive a pension. M0nica has had another suggestion which would leave everyone with at least a very basic pension including those with the top 20% of income and wealth. It has been an interesting and thoughtful discussion. I think even this would be eventually phased out but it is sort of the same thing coming from a more familiar direction and may therefore be more acceptable.

I will ignore what you say after that - it is really a different discussion and one I have no wish to take part in.

People in Germany have traditionally mostly rented instead of buying their homes (I gather that is beginning to change) whereas until fairly recently in the U.K. a good percentage of people owned their homes and would normally have paid off their mortgages by the time they retired

I picked up on that in one of my post to M0nica Witzend and it seems a likely explanation. Remember that these are the maximum pensions they pay so, if we are looking at our system housing costs could make the maximum very high until we build more housing. That is already being paid though and it is just moving it all to under one wrapper called "Pension" or perhaps as others do "old age benefit" as this is what it really is.

Maryeliza Meant to add I don’t understand why the WFA and BP should kick in 5 years after SPA - that’s just bonkers imo

I don't think they do (?). They have moved with the change in SPA though.

Sorry GG I meant that’s what the report suggests should happen

Thanks Urmstongran

Oh maryeliza54, in that case just can kicking to try and offend the Tory base a little less I would think.

My husband gave up his car 10 years ago as his driving had become erratic. Ten years on we can’t afford to run a car as I’ve now retired. We both have bus passes but he cannot use buses to go to hospital appointments as he is too unstable on his legs. So he has to have taxi to and from. I use buses all the time as I look after two grandkids three times s week. I take them to school as parents leave at 7.30 am ... the buses here are unreliable that time in morning so I walk 3.5 miles which takes me 1.10 approx. I leave home about 6.15 am. After taking them to school I wait til 9.30 and get the first bus that I don’t have to pay for . I arrive home after more than hour as it’s two buses for that three mile journey . Sort out my now disabled husband ...do housework ...get our lunch and start return journey by the two buses. Three days a week with total of 9 bus journey’s. I am on a state pension only but because of husbands small works pension it takes over limit for pension credit. I lost 3 years pension cos of change in pensionable age changing. Is there anything else the government can throw at me and my husband that can make our life any worse. Perhaps they could charge him for his 8 different pills a day. Very soon it will be a choice if eating or heating our home. Think I’m kidding. I’m not.

I am another of the WASPI women, born in 1955 I just missed the transition years & was told I wouldn't receive my State Pension until I was 65, under David Cameron this was suddenly raised to 66. I will not get my Bus Pass or Winter Fuel Allowance until then.

Prescriptions are the only "benefit" which comes into play at 60, I however haven't paid for Prescriptions for 16 years due to qualifying health issues.

I took early retirement at 50 to care for my DH which I did for 7 years. I now claim Employment & Support Allowance (Income based) as I have a reduced work capacity, this does entitle me to certain benefits in the same way that Pension Credit does. I have to claim Warmer Homes Discount every year, this is the only help I get towards my heating costs. My ESA is reduced by my Civil Service Pension not a gold plated one so I am no better off Income wise every year, my spending power is reducing as all living costs are rising.

To remove free TV Licences from over 75 is a dreadful idea as is removing Bus Passes, this will only lead to more isolation.

I get the free tv licence but I don't actually get a full state pension. I worked and paid NI fior 30 years and brought two children up for the remaining ten years. I was the best person to look after two babies and young children. I could have paid someone else to bring them up for me and then I would have been entitled to a full state pension. It's utterly ridiculous and unfair.

I really hope some people in their 20/30/40/50s see this thread or get to here about the HofL’s “thinking”.

Hopefully it will make them realise that they should make arrangements for the type of retirement they want/need.

We drummed it into our AC that the minute they had their first full time employment after education, that they should sort out their pension. Fortunately they all have, even in the tough months they still contribute something!

I guess we are the last generation to get “freebies” as it is just not sustainable anymore.

(I shall be 67yrs 4mths before I can get my state pension)

LuckyFour
If you don't have a private pension then you'd be entitled to claim pension credit to top up your state pension to the current amount who h went up in April. I think it's about £167pw.

who h which

Kitty Lester - pension contributions were deducted from the gross salary before the tax liability was calculated so in effect they came from untaxed income

I totally agree Joelsnan. I am concerned that this is deliberate to stir up intergenerational conflict - to add to an already toxic environment this gov has created. I'm sure most of us have brought up respectful young people, but there are some campaigning to support this appalling proposal. I'm almost 63 and a supporter of backto60.com trying to get my pension paid back as delayed for 6 years as many of you born mid 50s may also. We are defending such awful ignorance from elite trying to give a balanced view to the younger generation through Twitter and FB. If you have any queries on them or the Judicial Review on 5-6 June either go to backto60.com or message me.

No Nonnie I do not think that "only needy pensioners" should get help from the state. That is not what I posted.

I do think it would be better if some help for eg. free prescriptions and winter fuel allowance were given to those most in need not to all who reach a certain age.

Surely, this would be preferable than some of the elderly living in poverty and having to choose between a meal and some warmth in their homes.

GabriellaG54 This may seem a little nit-picking, for which I apologise but Pension Credit is one of the most underclaimed benefits.

You said that if LuckyFour doesn't "have a private pension then you'd be entitled to claim pension credit to top up your state pension". This is the nit-picky bit.

It is if your income is not (2019/20) equal to or above £167.25 then it would be made up to that amount. In other words, your income can include a private pension, it is the total income that counts.

I have found my bus pass to be priceless. Last year my husband had to spend several weeks in our 'local' hospital about 14 miles away. I went to see him every day on the bus, as I don't drive, which would have been impossible if I'd had to pay as the cost is very high, not sure exactly about £7-8 return I think.

It would not be economic to restrict these age-related benefits by means testing, but they could be made taxable so better off pensioners could make a contribution to the cost.

I agree with all that's been said so far. I would suggest we solve our financial problems by politicians taking a wage cut and getting rid of all the discounts that are part and parcel of the job. Income tax and making sure they don't get away with not paying what they owe, would save all the pensioners moving to poverty level.

I’ve often had conversations with other BP holders on what a wonderful thing it is. However we usually agree that we would be prepared to pay something towards it.
I am nearly 66 and got both my SP & BP just over a year ago.
I don’t use it often because we don’t have many buses.
Last year I could have got on a bus round the corner and once an hour could have gone right to the town 20 miles away or left to the market town 2 miles down the road and then on to the city 25 miles further on. Brilliant.
Now it’s all changed, 2 companies now share the route. They don’t quite meet at the market town. The town bus( hope you are all keeping up?) only runs every 2 hours now and there is at least a half hour wait in the market town for the city bus. On the way back it’s worse.
So, we no longer use the bus for the city journey. Therefore the bus is a bit emptier and we have polluted the atmosphere with our diesel car.
I do still work part time and both my DH and I pay tax. Wouldn’t it be quite easy for those of us who are still taxpayers to buy our pass? If this meant it would ensure that bus companies could afford to run a decent service we would be happy to pay.