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Our Crumbling Economy

(82 Posts)
GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 11:42:40

I have just heard about Bombardier and feel it is another step along the way to the crumbling of our economy.

The aerospace firm, Bombardier, is putting its Belfast operation up for sale as part of a reorganisation of the business.

I thought we should have a post where all these things could be tied together i.e., business, job insecurity the breakdown in local services and just the general lack of stability in our countries.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 19:59:54

Are you saying that only the Labour party understands and empathises with the 'working classes' and 'the poor and disadvantaged' in society? GabriellaG54 (Thu 02-May-19 19:18:02)

I didn't say anything like that. I was describing PMQs. I am sorry if you didn't find it recognisable.

"Why not elect someone who knows all about it such as the Prince of Pimlico Plumbers Charlie Mullins or JKRowling or the B'stard of Billingsgate Roger Barton?"

I think this has been a really good and reasoned thread. Where was anyone talking about who to elect? We were trying to see and discuss the challenges we currently have. If you want to make the suggestions you put as challenges above then do so - as your own suggestion.

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 20:11:04

It was you , GracesGranMK3 who wrote that Mrs May seems not to understand the plight of anyone who is not her base vote.
I responded to that by asking why you (and any reader agreeing with you) don't recommend someone who has come from humble beginnings.
You don't have a monopoly on here simply by starting a thread. It's all tied in with the economy.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 20:16:16

We seem to have gone a little off topic. I am glad some people see their position in the country as comfortable, happy, content and secure. Large swaths of the country don't see it like that, however. Just telling them it is their own fault or that they are wrong and there is no problem is surely not an acceptable solution.

In terms of regional inequality, the UK is more divided than the US. The situation in the UK is extreme. It is as if a great crime has been committed on large parts of the UK population. The regions have become sacrifice zones, feeding the finance monster in London. The same crime committed on the heartlands in the US. The crime began in the 1970s and it is still happening. As inequality drives political instability, it is vitally important for all, wherever they live that something is done. As the Economist suggested nearly two years ago, “Regional inequality is proving too politically dangerous to ignore”
– The Economist, 17 December 2016.

If anything things have got worse. I wonder if we need a different sort of democracy that will really represent the whole of the country?

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 21:52:41

I haven't mentioned that the 'large swathes' of the country are wrong, it's their own fault or that there is no problem.
Of course, they have their own perspectives however, I am saying that in many cases the solutions lie in their (the communities) own hands.
Wringing one's hands and bemoaning your lot in life gets you nowhere but with a little ingenuity, perhaps a willingness to move to an area where there is more work (where possible) and dedication (learning a new skill or broadening your job choices or getting an apprenticeship which includes day release so that theory can be learned or language/mathmatical skills honed.
Two of my children moved hundreds of miles away to get jobs.
One went to Wales and one to the far North of England. Both were 16 and had never been away anywhere without us, their parents. They flourished.
I am saying that it's defeatist to give up and bemoan your fate.
You can often surprise yourself if you try.

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 21:56:57

I apologise for being upbeat and having a positive, can do attitude.
I blame my parents as I didn't ask to be this way.
It annoys the heck out of a lot of people.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 02-May-19 22:04:38

GabriellaG54. There is nothing wrong with incentivising people to get on in life I agree. Unfortunately for some the easiest path is to do nothing and bemoan ones lot in life.

Callistemon Thu 02-May-19 22:11:38

Why not elect someone who knows all about it such as the Prince of Pimlico Plumbers Charlie Mullins or JKRowling or the B'stard of Billingsgate Roger Barton?
Contrary to what she might like to portray, Joanne Rowling had a very middle class upbringing in a lovely house in a leafy village. She may have hit hard times as a single mum at one point, but she had an advantaged start to life.
I don't know about the other two you mention, Gabriella.

Rosina Thu 02-May-19 22:28:47

Gabriella that is so encouraging - you can laugh, or you can cry in this life, and there are people who have achieved stupendous results when life has deal them the worst cards.

Rosina Thu 02-May-19 22:29:14


MaizieD Thu 02-May-19 22:30:24

It's like a red rag to a bull, isn't it. Mention poverty and it's suddenly all about moaners and shirkers; as if all a poor person has to do is work hard and everything will be fine. If they're poor it's their own fault.

Well, a lot of 'poor'people work very hard for negligible reward and are still poor. And there are a lot of rich people who have done nothing to 'deserve' their wealth apart from being born into a very wealthy family. Which are then the 'shirkers'?

I'm sorry, GGMK3 that your thread has degenerated in this way.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 23:42:38

"I apologise for being upbeat and having a positive, can-do attitude. I blame my parents as I didn't ask to be this way. dIt annoys the heck out of a lot of people." GabriellaG54 (Thu 02-May-19 21:56:57)

Always interesting to hear how people see themselves. I shouldn't worry about it. Personally, I don't find your posts upbeat, positive and can-do so please don't fret. That is certainly not what annoys the heck out of me where they are concerned.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 23:49:34

I'm sorry, GGMK3 that your thread has degenerated in this way. MaizieD (Thu 02-May-19 22:30:24)

It is a shame Maizie as there have been some really good posts. There are always some who want to talk more about themselves than discuss the point but we got a longer go at the subject than we usually do.

Eloethan Fri 03-May-19 00:32:17

Those who talk of the OP and others "talking down the country" have not addressed the list of crumbling public services that the OP provided.

Saying that "unemployment is at its lowest rate" doesn't in any way comfort me. There appears to be no definition of what "employment" means, other than working at least one hour a week. To my mind having a very insecure working arrangement which may mean working only a few hours a week is not what most people would recognise as true "employment".

In my view, the OP is absolutely right. This is supposed to be an advanced country and yet almost every day there are reports of failing services. This evening's news was about the crisis in our hospitals where job cuts and general underfunding have placed such pressures on medical and other staff that sickness levels are at an all time high.

It seems that some people who are not directly affected by austerity measures feel that there is nothing to be concerned about. But, to my mind, even those of us who are relatively secure and comfortably off will be affected if this decimation of public services continues. Unless they are super rich and can afford to find themselves a nice tax haven to emigrate to or pay for any service they need, including policing, they are still vulnerable to crime, poor physical and mental health and to the creeping degradation of amenities such as parks and other public spaces. Having said all that, it feels wrong to me to be so self-congratulatory about one's own - and one's family's - good fortune while being so dismissive of the real suffering and pressures occurring in many other people's families.

GabriellaG54 Fri 03-May-19 01:59:38

I think having more people crammed into certain areas overloads the infrastructure to the detriment of housing, policing, education, transport, jobs, green spaces and hospitals/health centres.
You'll find that happens much more often in cities than suburban or rural areas and that is why more green spaces are lost to housing. Crime is more prevalent.
Many building firms are paying contractors who employ cheaper workers who often live in HMO.
It's the way it works in virtually every country. To change the status quo is akin to getting the Red Sea to part.
There is a lot of sympathy here for people who are disadvantaged.
How about posting your realistic ideas as to how we, who are more fortunate, can change their lives and the prospects of our AC and GC for the better, bearing in mind that it would have to be sustainable, affordable and acceptable to the majority.

GabriellaG54 Fri 03-May-19 02:21:19

Underfunding is nonsense. The NHS is terribly wasteful and that's a well known fact as are doctors who prescribe medication that cost pennies as opposed to prescription prices.
I had a friend who for many years had a sore thumb joint for which she was prescribed a cream which arrived straight from the manufacturer. It cost £84 for a 100g tub. After at least 4 years her thumb was no better.
She and her OH had shed loads of pills in stock.
HMRC are another lumbering creaking dinosaur as are social services. We can't change them all.
It would take at least another 50 years to make any sort of dent in public services and only if those in charge had the will and the nous to do it.

crystaltipps Fri 03-May-19 05:46:04

The real problem is inequality which has increased dramatically. The have and the have nots are divided more starkly than in previous generations. Social mobility is possible, but it is harder. This is the result of successive governments’ policies to protect the better off. The whole country has been living off the coat tails of the international hub that is the City. The fact that it isn’t the worse place in the world shouldn’t make us smug or think we can just be I’m all right jack. The government are squandering billions on all sorts of failed / failing / potentially disastrous policies that we can see the whole facade crumbling before our eyes.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 03-May-19 08:39:37

The Independent is reporting that the NHS has delayed cancer treatment, in some cases I definately, because it has had to put so much money aside for the Brexit effect.

Grany Fri 03-May-19 09:26:19

Underfunding is not nonsense This Tory government are deliberately underfunding our NHS Heatlh spending was 5.4% of GDP IN 2010 and it is now 1.4%. So it will fail and changing it to an insurance based model like the USA to make profit from our Health Service The USA health care system disastrous we should have nothing to do with it.

This is a fall in spending of 74% of GDP

GabriellaG54 Fri 03-May-19 09:37:37

They should stop treating health visitors who fly here to have ops or babies and leave the country without paying.

MamaCaz Fri 03-May-19 09:39:38

Crime is rising dramatically.

I am 'lucky' in that I live out in the countryside, where violent crime is low. However, the number of burglaries and car thefts in our surrounding villages has absolutely rocketed over the last few years. I follow the local Neighbourhood Watch group on Facebook, and such incidents are happening nearly every day. Those responsible are able to operate day and night without any danger of being caught, knowing that the nearest police (apart from traffic officers with speed cameras) are miles away.

Meanwhile, our bus service has been slashed - actually, the council cut it completely, but several parishes have banded together to fund a minimal service for a limited time. No good for anyone depending in it to get to appointments etc.

Our doctors surgeries are like those in the towns, with not enough doctors and increasing difficulty in getting an appointment.

Our local roads are now in such bad condition that they make driving dangerous. Most repairs that have been done to them are so badly done that they might as well not have bothered, but I guess there isn't the money available to check that the work, done on the cheap, is up to scratch.
Roads that should be wide enough for two normal-sized vehicles to pass with ease are now effectively single track in places, with people having to drive in the centre to avoid deep potholes, which makes driving on them very dangerous.

On a more superficial level - our local rights-of-way across local fields are in danger of being lost. Over the last couple of years, farmers have failed to 'reinstate' these paths after sowing their crops, meaning that they have become impassable for many months of the year. This happens to coincide with the bankruptcy of our county council which means that no one is available to enforce the law in these matters. Not a priority, I know, but still very much a sign of the times!

Those are just some of the effects of the crumbling economy out in the countryside!

Grany Fri 03-May-19 09:46:43

Say no to NHS privatisation

Grany Fri 03-May-19 10:03:15

message GabriellaG54 Health visitors as you say, who use the NHS don't make a dent they are a drop in the ocean how it's run the NHS was set up to help people. People don't know that the NHS is being sold off under the radar behind our backs people unaware.

Lily65 Fri 03-May-19 10:04:36 me, you are totally wasting your time.

GabriellaG54 Fri 03-May-19 10:25:58


Grany Fri 03-May-19 11:41:14