Revoke, Remain, Reform

"Jeremy Corbyn has just made it crystal clear that a vote for Labour is a vote for brexit." (Thu 09-May-19 11:50:30)

I wonder what you were listening to varian as it was completely the opposite to what I heard. He said " ... we can never accept the governments bad deal or a disastrous no deal. So, if we can't get a sensible deal along the lines of our alternative plan, or a General Election, Labour backs the option of a public vote on it"

I can't see that anything has changed. They are the opposition, not a small party that can offer the unobtainable. It is worth people listening to the whole speech and making up their own minds. www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9nLX6fWcVk

If people want a chance for a Brexit that will look after the whole country and not just those who are extremely wealthy then we have seen the Tories cannot produce any such thing. If such a "leave" cannot be agreed, and it sounds unlikely, then he has said that they will back a vote. They, with the help of the smaller parties and those Conservatives in favour of the vote, could get it through parliament.

The smaller parties cannot do this. It is a question of what's possible. The Brexit Party may hold seats in the EU parliament but they will have no power in the UK parliament which is what matters. The smaller parties only have power in parliament if they join up with others. We are still in the same situation and with the same maths. As far as I can see May will not move although, I suppose, stranger things have happened.

You can send messages, voting for smaller leave parties or the Brexit party but that will not change anything.

Urmstongran I know lots of “young folks” who voted leave.

I also know quite a few remain voters of all ages that are so disappointed with our MPs negotiating skills (or lack of) that if there were to be a 2nd referendum they would now vote leave!!!

For anyone who read carefully what was printed on the side of the bus, it was quite clearly ASKING the question about whether the money saved would be better spent on the NHS, AFTER we had left the EU. As we haven't yet left the EU, no one can possibly say, as that circumstance has yet to happen!!

I do love how it’s always perceived that voters from the referendum who have since died were all (or mostly) Leave voters! And that the young will in the majority be Remain voters.

We shall see!

Varian if JC has finally come off the fence in favour of Brexit I guess that NF and the “Brexit Party” have ruffled a few feathers.

I am just utterly fed up with the whole lot of them - I voted leave, but can honestly say I now do not give a flying fig what happens.

The only certainty is all the MPs have lined their pockets so that when they get their comeuppance, financially they will be all right!!!

JC said that Labour supports a second referendum, at the end of the parliamentary process.

He sees it as a healing process

Jeremy Corbyn has just made it crystal clear that a vote for Labour is a vote for brexit. Shame on him ignoring the wishes of the vast majority of Labour our members and Labour voters.

MamaCaS

I cannot disagree with your reasoning. However a positive vote in favour of the Remain parties on the 23rd will show a popular demand for a People's Vote. Refusal to grant a People's Vote under those circumstances will not go down well.

Fennel, hence the use of the word " fairly"

Cindersdad

I am with you all the way, except for your last paragraph.

The EU elections should not be seen as a referendum unless the Government makes an official, public statement to that effect, and notifies every household in the country of that.

In the absence of such notification, we cannot know voters' reasons for voting as they do, whether they choose the candidate that they feel will best represent the UK in the EU (as should normally be the case in these in these elections), or whether they have made a protest vote.
The same goes for voter apathy.

In other words, as things stand right now, I will take the results of the EU elections with a pinch of salt.

Lily wrote:
"I think The Guardian and The Independent are fairly reliable?"
I don't trust any of the papers - they all have an axe to grind and want to sell as many copies as possible. And need to be selective about what they print. What they leave out could by more important than what they print.
I don't know where we can get the 'real' facts from. Certainly not the TV.

Gabriella:

"Alexa
Don't tell other people what you think I was confused about. You know nothing about my reasons for objecting so please refrain from putting uour own spin on it."

True, you did not say what offended you. I don't have the right not to be offended. Have you?

Indeed- I have voted in every election since I became British in 73- in full knowledge that my vote, and OH's would go straight into the bin - because of where we lived.

Very good post Cindersdad thank you. You make a good point about disenfranchisement (if such a word exists) of voters who support smaller parties. We have a proportional representation here in Scotland and, while not perfect, it certainly produces a fairer idea of what the electorate supported.

I just say it is as I see it which I know is not accepted by everyone. I voted REMAIN and still think that on balance the country will be worse off after Brexit. The margin for LEAVE in June 2016 was not great.

Of the 44 million electorate in 2016 15 million wanted to stay, 17 million leave and around 12 million chose not to vote. Since then roughly 2 million of the then electorate have passed away and a further 2 million young voters have become elligible to vote.

Immediately after the vote the £ dropped sharply and never really recovered . The £ was probably over valued and our lower comparable costs has helped the economy but when Brexit (hard or soft) actually happens the fragile economy will likely suffer. We have low unemployment but many of the jobs are insecure and low paid.

The recent local elections indicate a probably pro EU view in the population, only the results of the EU election on the 23rd will a better picture. Either way a second referendum is the only way to settle the issue. I personally do not like or trust the Tories, Brexit Party or UKIP but do agree with a Brexit Party spokesperson we he says the electoral system is broken. FPTP is OK for a 2 party system but disenfranchises many voters who support other partiesor happen to live in constituency where their votes never count.

There is a pending private prosecution of Boris Johnson for his part in the 350 million NHS lie. His was not the only lie and there were misleading statement of both sides. We now believe that we know a lot more about the consequences of Brexit. You could loose your EHIC card, mobile roaming in the EU, pay more for Travel insurance when Brexit takes effect, Trade with the rest of the world may not happen.

On the 23rd May vote for what believe in, which I hope is REMAIN though if the majority votes LEAVE I reluctantly will give way. Do not simply not vote through apathy and encourage others, especially the young, to vote as well.

Alexa
Don't tell other people what you think I was confused about. You know nothing about my reasons for objecting so please refrain from putting uour own spin on it.

^NF said on the Sophie Ridge show this morning he will reveal the name of his backer who has donated £100,000 to the new Brexit Party once the EU polls have taken place as otherwise ‘you media people will be camping outside his front door’.

Patience people.^ (Mon 06-May-19 22:10:08)

So if we are told they have walked away with the majority of the seats and Farage answers the next question the journalists are bound to ask him with "It was the Chinese Government who backed us with that money". Urmstongran You would be happy.

I am not suggesting for one moment it is the Chinese government but it does show how illogical it is to expect Farage to get away with not declaring his donor. The very idea makes me feel very uncomfortable and brings back memories of another little man who manipulated the system to get into power.

Enough with the 'lefties" comments please. Can I just remind some that there are huge swathes of labour voters who voted Brexit and huge swathes of right wing Tory voters who voted to remain.

lemon, providing a link, asking a question, thinking out loud, whatever it may be it not some hideous left wing plot.

I think The Guardian and The Independent are fairly reliable?

Many documented examples are from left wing sources, or slightly iffy sources to back up posters own views in any case, and anyone who has a different mindset is asked to produce answers as to ‘why’ they voted a certain way, or why they think blah blah is best.It’s a well known tactic on GN sadly.

No, it doesn’t mean anything of the sort Dinah but do go on with that arrogant idea if it suits you.

There are some suggestions on here that those people who quote references and links are lefties who wish to force their opinions on the rest. Other people start off by writing " ~It is my believe that......" Whatever that is. The problem with beliefs is that often there is no underlying evidence in support. For example " I believe that everything will be OK after we leave the EU". When asked for reasons why the reasons are often not supplied. Ergo it must be something in their water. It's a bit like asking Christians why they believe in God or asking Flat Earthers why they think the world is flat and not round.

What is interesting is that documented examples are generally provided by those whom I would consider to be left of centre. Does this mean that we are more intelligent, thoughtful people? (IMO it does)

www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-25/brexit-big-short-how-pollsters-helped-hedge-funds-beat-the-crash

MaizieD if what you say is true and he conceded defeat knowing he had won (which is arbitrary) to make a financial gain, the FCA would have a case for him to answer to.

I am not a "Farage Fan" but until it is proven he acted illegally in our law system - innocent until proven guilty.

Thank you for informing me on the money market? "Playing the markets" is why we are mortgage free.

'Heil Fuhrer' is inappropriate only when the context is 'inappropriate'. That post in its entirety was 'appropriate' context.

Gabriella confused lexicon with meaning.

There are many bad words which are okay in certain contexts. For instance I'm reading Huckleberry Finn in which the N word is frequently used in the language of all within a savage society in which Huck Finn is struggling to find a way to do right.