Horrified by Alabama Abortion law

Yes, indeed.

Abortion can be seen as an act of maternal love , if the said mother knows that a child’s life is likely to be horrendous.

Who is "hand wringing"?

The people hand wringing about "abortion as contraception" people also havent quantified what they mean.

Do you mean that you think people are having abortions recreationally ? I dont get it

Abortion IS contraception to me. What else would it be? If I had found myself pregnant when I didnt want to be I would have stopped being pregnant. The world is over populated enough with enough dysfunctional families to add to that unless you really want the child

"Oh but you could give the blessing of adoption..."
"Blessing" hmm... America actually has a DISPROPORTIONATE % of failed adoptions! So much so that some countries that allow overseas adoptions have considered banning adoptions to the US because of their huge failure rate, and their treatment of adoptees when adoptions do break down. In some cases they are literally dumped, there are cases of them being put on aeroplanes ad unacompanied minors to the countries of their birth where they know no one and dont know the language. Analysis of this has suggested that the idea popular in America that adoption is a "blessing" rather than a source of early trauma causes problems when the children actually arent as "grateful" to be an adoptee as the adoptive parents think they should be.

Adoptions fail in the UK too but at a lower rate because at least in the UK it is appreciated that adoption is not the ideal start in life!

The US has shown that their adoption services hold the adoptees heritage in very low regard too which adds to the trauma for some adoptees.

Adoptions can work out too but they are not a "blessing" or a "gift" they are frought with pitfalls, which countries like America have a worse overall track record of negotiating than some others. America has a DARK history of glossing over adoptions and ignoring the impact on the adoptee and the birth mother

So....

Still waiting for the anti-choicers on her (including all the "abortions with a "but.." " people) to answer me why they are not campaigning for compulsary vasectomies?

Since that would PREVENT abortions rather than drive them underground. Is that not what you want? Hmm?

I agree Nana. Forcing a woman to continue carrying a fetus to 40 weeks when it is known that it won’t survive is simply barbaric.

I knew someone who chose to terminate at a relatively late stage when it was discovered that her baby’s face hadn’t developed and it had no way of breathing. Imagine compounding her distress by forcing her to remain pregnant for a further 4-5 months. Nope - not in my name.

NanaandGrampy I can't either but I sadly personally know some people who did face that very thing.

One chose to carry the baby to term, or as close to term as it would survive, chosing to love it and grow it for as long as they could. It was still born having died in the womb before delivery. That was the right choice for them. I 100% support that.

Another couple chose to be induced, so they could hold the child while it was still alive, even though it only survived briefly. She could not bear to walk around wondering if the baby inside her had died yet. She was induced, gave birth, and her baby died in its parents arms. That was the right choice for them. I 100% support that.

They knew that induction would bring forward the childs death.

^inducing labour like that in those circumstances is a form of "late abortion". IMO the second couple's choice was as valid as the first. Oh and they deliberately concieved again soon after, which was NOT evidence of either regreting the abortion or evidence that they used it as "contraception" despite how some on this thread would interpret stats like that. The subsequent child was concieved with genetic councelling.

NanaandGrampy

It’s akin to torture I imagine

Notanan2

Me too

I cannot, in my darkest imagination begin to comprehend how it must feel to be carrying a child you KNOW will not survive . A child who will face the monumental struggle of being born to die.

So , I support late stage abortions for women in that situation 100% .

free, easy? access to safe abortions with no restrictions '
I can't believe than anyone deems that permissible or moral, especially those last three words.

I do

foreignpolicy.com/2019/05/16/what-actually-happens-when-a-country-bans-abortion-romania-alabama/

The reality

Maryeliza thankyou yes just shows the ridiculous obsession with this tiny percentage all of which are of course tragic for the women concerned but clearly much needed intervention.

Do we know what women’s groups in the USA are planning to do?

SirChenjin I didn't say that either. Because I don't support the ruling doesn't mean I think all abortions are ok. And I'm too tired to post any more today. Energy limited.

X posts Lazi

mycat the actual figure is less than 0.1% after 24 weeks. Myths and lies put about by anti- choicers make it sound as though it’s an epidemic.

As has been said most terminations (92%) are carried out at under 13 weeks gestation. If we prevent the rare very late terminations ie 0.1% 24 weeks or over, we would cruelly be denying women who are very ill, or whose babies have severe abnormalities, the right to terminate. In my experience of late termination no woman takes this decision lightly and without very good reason. This is not getting off the point because I believe there is a strong lobby in England and Wales to reduce the time allowed for termination of pregnancy.

So called late abortions are a tiny percentage and obviously the decision is taken by the mother with advice from her medical team. Do you know any woman who would abort at 27 plus weeks just for social reasons? of course not.

Free easy access safe abortions on demand are an essential health care must for women and I hope to god this awful law is reversed.

Gonegirl

This baby could not survive because he had half a brain and no doctor could save it.

You're getting off the point. Women here have the right to choose. Most of us here want the women in America to have the same choice. Full stop.

There was a very famous case on mumsnet from a NI woman a mumsnetter.

Her baby had severe abnormalities and would not survive after birth. She found this out at 26 weeks.

She was denied an abortion and forced to give birth full term and of course her baby died.

I think any state forcing this woman to do this to go weeks with a pregnancy that the baby would not survive was barbaric.

"Do you define late as after 24 weeks Gonegirl?"
Yes. Certainly. And before that. If there is no medical cause for the abortion, then it should be done within the first few weeks.

"Do you think a foetus that will die at birth should be carried to term?"
If the baby is growing, then I wouldn't want to see it aborted. I would hold out hope that the doctors could save it after its birth.

The thing about the cancer patient, I think that should be left for the mother to decide. No one else.

No, not unlikely to survive, it won't survive. And no, risk to the mother is not always picked up earlier. Late abortions are very rare though, have tight controls and are not undertaken lightly - the vast majority of abortions are taken much earlier in the pregnancy.

Do you define late as after 24 weeks Gonegirl?

Do you think a foetus that will die at birth should be carried to term?

Do you think a cancer patient should delay treatment until after a full term birth?

These are two real life happenings that I know of. I just wonder if you think it is always wrong, wrong, wrong.

Not sure what "incompatible with life"means.Do you mean unlikely to survive? Of so, I would say give it a chance once it has come to later term.

If it puts the mother's health at risk, I think the doctors would have realised this much earlier on and taken the necessary action then.

I'm no expert though.But I can't go along with killing live babies. (the kind that cry when they have been taken out)

Not in my opinion. If the fetus at a very late stage is incompatible with life or risks the life of the mother then a late abortion should be available freely and without restrictions.