UK Steel Industry & Media Reporting

Perhaps those posters who want the government to pour money into these areas , but not support the steel industry, could describe what industries they think will want to set up there?

I have said for years that if any government wanted to see a fairer society they should stop enabling the continued growth in parts of the South. End of.

GabriellaG54, in your posting @ 22:13 yesterday you indicate that you feel strongly that no government money should be used to subsidise the continued operation of the British Steel plant at Scunthorpe.

However, you have previously stated on this forum that your Husband or Partner is a Banker. In that, the whole banking industry collapsed in 2008 (known as the Banking Crisis) due to the sheer stupidity and greed of many of those that managed that industry.

That banking industry then received by far largest government "bailout" ever funded by the British taxpayer in this countries industrial history which continued from 2008 until 2015

Therefore GabriellaG54, your "other half" as you put it has directly benefited from the above public money, and you yourself have indirectly also benefited from that funding no doubt.

However, you now do not wish to see others receive the same government help that your other half and you have gained so much from.

Some may describe that as a totally selfish attitude, to put it mildly.

The British Steel plant on Teesside is also at risk but ‘only’ 700 jobs so not making quite the same noise in the national news. Sadly this is very much the rump of a business that once employed many thousand people. Several thousand jobs were lost when Tata pulled out a few years ago. These are the plants that sent steel across the world. Sydney harbour bridge bears a plaque citing Dorman Long (pre nationalised industry) in Middlesbrough for the steel and design. My grandad worked there as did his father.
Add to this the loss of ship building, petrochemical and agricultural chemical industries and the impact is huge. The biggest employers are local authorities, health and the university.
Why do some areas thrive and others not?

We taught all these other nations how to make steel and now, unfortunately, we are suffering.

I don’t understand why so many people see the closure of the Scunthorpe steelworks in purely economic terms. Other considerations like the destruction of communities should be taken into account.
Additionally, once we have no steel of our own we are at the mercy of other country’s whims as to what price we have to pay - there aren’t lots of nations out there capable of producing high quality steel.
Like many others I was shocked that the collapse of Jamie Oliver’s restaurants came first on the news and I don’t even live in the north-east.

Why do some areas thrive and others not

It’s simple Alygran successive governments allow this and even encourage it . Investing £billions on transport for London and the South . Here on Tyneside we are still using the same original metro trains from 1980 that are breaking down on a daily basis .

Governments need to stop allowing expansion in and around London and force it out around the country improving transport links for all not just the chosen ones . I’m sick of hearing that the capital is overcrowded . Who’s fault is that ?

It's not so much journalists are ill informed but they don't do their homework properly. There are very few investigative journalists about anymore. This is part of the reason why so much false information is broadcast because the interviewer doesn't realise that what the interviewee has said is biased and inaccurate and therefore does nothing to put forward a balanced view.

Oh goodness. The issue is so much greater than £. If we lose all those industries we cannot keep innovation in those fields thriving. We need basic key industries, if necessary we should subsidise them. Same with farming. Do we really want to be dependent on other countries for everything? Skills, innovation, security, all at risk. And Jamie Oliver is internationally famous for changing attitudes to food and cooking, he entered many homes, and of course the collapse of his chain is newsworthy. Both news items are sad. And whilst I wouldn’t expect government to intervene with JO, I hope they do over steel, to keep steel production skills and material knowledge alive for the future. And of course Brexit is f—king up their orders. BS have said so.

I'll be interested to see how North lincs votes today and extend my sympathy accordingly..
North lincs voted 66% to leave in the referendum.

We should not give everything away by allowing cheap inports.We shouldxprotect our industry eith putting a higher tax on everything a countrycwants to import.Germany would never let Mercedes or Volkswagen's sild expect we allow Jaguar to be brought by India.A country we still give aid to.India has its own space program doesnt need aid from us.We have sold of all the family sliver.We was once the biggest manufacturer and industry in the world now we are just shopkeepers

We have sold of all the family sliver.We was once the biggest manufacturer and industry in the world now we are just shopkeepers

Absolutely, Houndi. I think this article sums it up. (A longish read but worth it)

How does one of the world’s most advanced economies end up without any major telecoms equipment maker of its own, and having to buy the vital stuff from a company that enjoys, according to the FBI, strong links with both the Chinese Communist party and the People’s Liberation Army?

Well, the answer is that the UK did have one. It was one of the largest and most famous industrial companies in the world. And it was finally killed off within the lifetime of every person reading this article, just over a decade ago. It was called the General Electric Company, or GEC, and the story of how it came to die explains and illuminates much of the mess the country is in today.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/08/britain-huawei-general-electric-company-thatcherism

I understand your view Grandad1943 and it's a very troubling scenario, not one which anyone would wish to happen but let me be clear or clearer (if that makes sense)
The steel plant at Scunthorpe have no way of repaying any monies forwarded or lent to BS.
Another poster (M0nica - I think) wrote that the banks have and are paying off the bailout money that was loaned by the government and have made very significant inroads into paying off that debt, unlike BS who have competition from India and China and whose plant machinery is ancient and cannot provide orders as quickly as those other countries.
There is more to it as there are two kinds of steel and specialised steel cannot be produced to the specs required by Scunthorpe.
Sad but true.
Read the Inde and Guardian reports which go into much more detail.
My OH is CEO of a private bank which operates in several major countries including the UK but was not involved in any bailout from the government. It is not a High St bank.
I hope that answer is acceptable.

Houndi you make some good points but you can’t muddle aid into the mix. We don’t leave the poor totally at the mercy of their own government budgeting. Just as the EU poured money into Wales even though we have nuclear weapons! And protecting skills and industries isn’t just about tariffs, which paradoxically may hurt the same industries.

Houndi, parts of your comment make no sense. Please try to be clearer in future posts. Thanks.
'Volkswagon's sild expect Jaguar to be brought from India'
We was once

My hunch was that Houndi was typing without her specs! My best friend’s messages are often indecipherable..

The steel plant at Scunthorpe have no way of repaying any monies forwarded or lent to BS.

Any money which the government might put into British Steel would mostly come back to it via taxation. The only money which wouldn't come back would be that paid as dividend to shareholders if they then offshored it, The same would apply for any highly paid BS executives (offshoring, I mean)

I don't think that the state should be acting as a bank (i.e requiring 'debt repayment') as most of the money will eventually return to the treasury. The state should not be in the business of making profits. If money they allocate to the industry maintains it and circulates in the 'real' economy that should be sufficient.

Perhaps some consideration should be given to balancing the cost of bailing out BS with the cost of paying out benefits to 5,000+ jobless people, and to people made jobless in businesses dependent on BS for much of their income.

The state is going to have to pay out whichever way it goes.

MaizieD well said

How much money has Greybull taken for their own and their shareholder's benefit?

The devastation caused to former mining communities will be repeated in Scunthorpe.
Scunthorpe has already suffered this. The town was founded on steel. I grew up there and every single family had someone employed at the steelworks. The 1980s didn't just see the end of mining jobs, over 20000 jobs were lost in Scunthorpe alone and it has never fully recovered. Money was poured in then for "retraining" and to encourage new business, as someone said the town is well connected to major cities and ports. It never managed to recover it's former prosperity.

I do feel that as a country I dislike the idea that we are dependant on imports of essentials such as gas, steel or even food.

It’s the employees I feel sorry for, so many will lose their jobs, unless the nasty party helps out.

After the workers lose their jobs they will next have to deal with being tarnished as scroungers and lazy people on benefits because without work that is what will happen?

I still think the BS should be saved, in time China might not dominate and then we will be glad to habve our own steel.
I don't think China can be on top much longer, they are already destroying the ozone layer again, after much had been repaired.
Todays BBC news says there is now scientific proof of what China is doing. I have started a thread on it.

I feel very sad about this. The coal mining communities were devastated by the loss of coal mining and whatever we think of coal the fact is without work people suffer.

GabriellaG54 Quote [ My OH is CEO of a private bank which operates in several major countries including the UK but was not involved in any bailout from the government. It is not a High St bank.
I hope that answer is acceptable.] End Quote

GabriellaG54, The 2008 banking crisis was a situation which affected the whole finance industry worldwide. Britain's as a major centre for the banking and finance industry therefore found itself responsible as the crisis developed for preventing the collapse of those financial institutions that were based in this country. Therefore very many billions of pounds were ploughed into the major banks in taxpayer subsidies to prevent their collapse.

However, all companies in the banking and finance industry are interlinked in a way that few other industries are, and therefore, the collapse of one major player will trigger a domino effect on others. That situation is precisely what happened initially with RBS at the outset of the banking crisis.

Therefore GabriellaG54 the taxpayer money that was poured into the major banks, in fact, acted as a subsidy to the whole banking and finance industry including the bank that you state your "other half" is CEO of. In that, your husband or partner undoubtedly benefited from government taxpayer subsidies and you as his wife or partner indirectly benefited also from those subsidies.

Drawn from the above many would undoubtedly find it strange that being associated with an industry that only survived in its entirety due to enormous taxpayer handouts, you would now deny those same benefits to others involved with struggling industries.

And by the way GabriellaG54, let us not forget that the banking crisis was brought on entirely by the incompetence and greed of those who were in management of those banks and other financial institutions both large and small.

It has been interesting to read through some of the posts on here, to my original, and whilst my initial thoughts were about the ignorance, and almost trivialisation by the BBC of this serious development, it's taken off in so many different directions.

It clearly cannot be argued that the solution is either black or white - comparing banks with manufacturing does not help. We are in danger - with a service led economy - of putting all our eggs in one basket, and de-skilling to a very high degree. The service sector - especially the financial services - is not innovative, and does not deliver societal benefits in the way it is applied in the UK.

I was intrigued by your observation GabriellaG54 though, where you state: "The steel plant at Scunthorpe have no way of repaying any monies forwarded or lent to BS."

That same argument is applicable to the privatised train operators in the UK - they have been subsidised by the state for the past 25+ years, and their business model has failed, and they have no way of returning the taxpayer investment.

Why do we continue to allow those subsidies, and yet not others? Doubtless there are other examples - some from industry, and some from services - but the BBC's focus on Jamie Oliver's restaurant empire is a sign of the times perhaps, and in my view wrongly focussing on tertiary and post-tertiary markets.

Still a fascinating discussion - wonder how the Beeb will respond after JLR fails, or EDF pull out of the UK's energy market fully.

"It's not so much journalists are ill informed but they don't do their homework properly."

So true Avalon25 - couldn't agree more.