Labour anti-semitism

There is a definition of anti-semitism which has been agreed trueblue22 this indicates that the criticism of Israel is not anti-semitic. But if you want to discuss what actually happened, if there was a football match between Scotland and England and Scotland won would a Scotsman posting "No flag of St George on the cup" be being racist? Or would he simply be pointing out who won?

Best to agree to disagree as this point. We both have different views on what constitutes anti Semitism.

I think we have to belong to an indigenous group to recognise what is offensive to us. If I say something that is say offensive to a Frenchman and I don't think it is, then who is right here?

Defending George Galloway and calling a poster who disagrees with him ignorant

I don't understand just what you are referring to as an "unqualified" statement trueblue. If you could explain just what you want qualifying I am happy to help.

trisher Israel is the only Jewish state in the world, so a huge connection between the People and the State.

In what way gracesgranmk3 ? You've made a statement without qualifying it.

I find your posts trueblue as ignorant as those who muddle the Israeli state with Jews in general and then, often in ignorance, make antisemitic comments because they disagree with Israeli policy. It's almost as if you are blaming the likes of Corbyn for not sharing your misguided view.

He finds it pretty difficult to say the word Israel and he goes to a Passover dinner held by a group that the Jewish establishment find abhorent.

Many of the Jewish Labour voting residents in my ward, when canvassed before last year's local elections, said they would refuse to vote Labour because he was leader. They didn't want to 'enable' the party.

trisher you don't understand the emotional and historical tie that Jews have to Israel.

Israel is the only country in the world that would accept the wandering Jews. They have been persecuted through the centuries and they feel safer knowing there is one country they can flee to. My parents were Holocaust survivors, so I feel deeply on their insecurity.

Anti semitism is rife- I live, and am a local authority councillor, in London. There are too many incidences in my ward alone: excrement left on synagogue steps, anti Semitic trope graffiti on public buildings and attacks on Jewish schoolchildren.

Btw, Israel is the only democratic country in the ME. As for the anti Semitic trope of 'Zionist expansionism', Israel returned Gaza to the Palestinians and they are still under attack.

Criticism of a country that one hasn't visited, but whose views come from the media that suits their point of view, has to be questioned.

If someone displays a flag with the cross of St George it is reasonable to assume that they are English and supporters of the country of England. If someone displays the Israeli flag it is reasonable to suppose they are supporters of the country of Israel. They may or may not support the policies of that country's government. If someone says that fllag is not going to be on a football cup it is not dengrating that country nor is it anti-semitic it is simply teling the people who displayed the flag that they have lost.

What do you mean, conflating all Jews with Isreal? Where has anyone suggested it’s unacceptable to criticise the actions of the current Isreali government?

You still seem to be conflating all Jews with Israel and only Jews with Israel Iam neither are true and we must be allowed to criticise any state whoever sees it as a 'homeland'.

Displaying the Israeli flag doesn't equate to supporting the actions of the current Israeli government. Any visit to Auschwitz will mean meeting groups of young Jewish people wearing or carrying the Israeli flag. It doesn't mean (automatically) that they support the current Israeli government but it does mean they support the right of Jewish people to have a flag an a homeland.
Galloway is anti semitic. As has often been acknowledged in these discussions, there can be a fine line between anti semitism and disapproval of the current Israeli government. Galloway crossed that line, again and quite deliberately, with his recent tweet.
Grandad - I have Jewish friends who support WestHam so thanks for reminding us of the history.

Thanks Grandad1943 I had to research it to find out what was really going on myself. So many places reporting the Tweet without explaining the circumstances. It really bothers me. I think there are so many accusations flying about now that there is a real danger that accusing someone of anti-semitism will become so common the very real anti-semitism which still exists will be overlooked and people will just shrug their shoulders when it is mentioned. It would be helpful if the circumstances were explained properly.

trisher, many thanks for the clarification of situation at the Champions League Final on Saturday. Due to other commitments, I did not see the match but have attended many Tottenham home matches over the years when I have been in London for work reasons.

In that, I never seen an Israeli flag raised among the Tottenham supporters and would have thought that would be far from their style of support for the club.

As I stated in my earlier post, Tottenham fans always have a very light-hearted approach to support for their club, and many of the self derogatory songs they sing in the build-up to the start of a home match can be absolutely hilarious and well worth going just for that.

Therefore I cannot understand why the Israeli flag was displayed prior to and during the match on Saturday. Perhaps it was because it was a huge final being played in Madrid and the very expensive tickets were gained by some of Tottenham's growing worldwide supporters who perhaps do not fully understand that the traditional Jewish connections of the club have no reference to Israel in the reality of these times.

However, again Trisher many thanks for posting clarification.

It's an Israeli flag Annie It's not a Jewish flag. Many Jewish people do not support Israel. Many Jewish people have other nationalities. Why is it anti-semitic to criticise the Israeli flag?
Still no comment on Glasgow and the Palestinin flag!!!

trisher you certainly help understanding of how so many anti semetic attacks in the Momentum/Corbyn Party are ignored

If it was the Jewish community he had commented on that would be completely right Grandad1943 but he referred to the Israeli flag which is displayed in the crowd at many matches. So he did not introduce the flag into the debate nor did he refer to the Jewish community. He referred to the Israeli flag. There is a link earlier in this thread showing the flag being displayed.
I notice no one has commented on why the Palestinian flag could not be displayed at a Glasgow match.

granddad1943 respect for not defending Galloway and thank you for explaining the birth of Tottenham football club, understandable that Tottenham were angry

Anniebach Quote [ So Galloway is a liar?] End Quote

Let us say that Galloway can be "very creative in what he views/imagines as facts."

Also Anniebach, regarding your posts on Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (to give them their full name) the club was brought about out of the large Jewish community that lived in the Tottenham area of London for many generations.

Many of the Clubs fans still try to retain that link even today by singing often derogatory songs about themselves from the terraces on match days. It creates a unique light-hearted atmosphere, especially for visiting fans, and long may that continue.

Galloway in trying to link that to middle east politics was a total disgrace, and he very much deserved to be sacked by the radio station in my view.

So Galloway is a liar ?

The fact that Jeremy Corbyn would not assist Galloway in his attempt to rejoin the Labour Party undoubtedly prompted Galloway to now join the high profile ragtag bag of those actively supporting the Brexit Party in the media.

What a joke that man is.

Anniebach Quote [ Oops, Corbyn’s close friend George Galloway has been sacked from his job ‘Talk Radio’ because of a tweet ] End Quote.

Anniebach, George Galloway was expelled from the Labour Party in 2004 for "bringing the party into disrepute." Therefore it would seem you try to create another hypothetical situation in your laughable attempts to discredit Jeremy Corbyn.

Galloway has praised Corbyn for his changing of the structure of the overall Labour movement. However, his request directly to Jeremy Corbyn in recent times for him to assist his readmittance to the Labour Party has been treated with indifference by Corbyn I believe.

So Anniebach once again your ongoing attempts to paint Corbyn into almost any derogatory situation or news item become evermore rediculas.

Does Sunderland have their own flag?

What has the Israeli flag got to do with a football match between two English teams ?

Not anti semetic to criticise Israel? Unbelievable what pathetic defence a Corbynite can use.

Israel wasn’t playing trisher , get it

Long live provocation and challenges without which oppressive regimes would flourish and human rights would sink like a stone.