Meanwhile in Scotland.....

Scots have always been travellers who ventured out into the wider world and there are many of us living in other parts of the UK. We were never given a say in the 2014 referendum, but I believe that most of us would have voted NO. We are proud to be Scottish and British. I do not think that many of us support the SNP.

However, we are also proud to be Europeans. I, like many Scots, sympathise with the SNP argument that Scotland may be dragged out of the EU against the will of the Scottish people and in some ways, I can see that could increase support for separation from the UK.

However, I hope that most Scots, wherever they currently live, will reflect on what we have learned in the last three years - that leaving a forty-five year old union would be horrendously complicated and damaging - so how much worse would it be to leave a union of more than four hundred years?????

Jane10, may I please point out that I did not say that you spoke for Scotland, just that you spoke for some (fewer than you may think perhaps) Scots. The Scottish Government is entitled, as it has been elected, to say it speaks for Scotland. Somebody has to!

Here in the North-East we are also inclined to think that the country is run by the Central Belt, but at least it's a bit closer than Westminster. The things that Boris Johnston has said about Scotland are very worrying as well as quite disgraceful from someone who wants to be the British (not English) Prime Minister, and I think that he may be the best argument for independence in himself. I just feel sorry for those in the North and South-West of England who are in a similar position in relation to Westminster but without the option of possible independence.

I see. So someone domiciled in Switzerland and someone's Dad think/ thought that. Well good for them

Blimey Jane10 just because another Scot’s views don’t chime with your own is no excuse to rubbish them in such a rude and disrespectful way.
I am shocked.
I can assure you that my father’s views were not unique to him and perfectly valid.
If you live in one of the areas of Scotland which has lost both its only railway link to the capital and also the backbone of its manufacturing heritage and where the population move is in one direction only -out- and you see squillions being squandered on a folie de grandeur parliament building which has over run its deadline and over its budget, it is hard not to feel that. a Central Belt centric emphasis is fine for “those and such as those” but not all of the Scottish population.
If it were, the independence referendum would have had a different outcome. Shame on you for your rudeness!

Boris is an utter buffoon - but hopefully the WM Parliament will stymie any attempts he and the other hardline right wing idiots make at dragging us out without a deal. If not then I fear we'll be facing sh*tstorm #1 in the form of Brexit or sh*tstorm #2 in the form of Scottish independence - both of which will bring many years of austerity, uncertainty and divisions.

Alternatively, given that Boris et al are not likely to approve the process for a 2nd indy ref we could just see a few more years of sniping and hyperbole, with little real outcome.

Decisions, decisions

Can I say that most of the South West England would also like to not be ruled by Westminster.
I would be sad to see Scotland break away because I like the place and the people.
If only we had real democracy and not the FPTP system then maybe we would not be facing the threat of idiot Johnson, who will no doubt finish us all off.
He should not be in charge of anything let alone the UK.

There are none so blind as those that will not see. Unlike the SNP I don't claim to speak for Scotland, just what I see, hear around me from around the country and have to live with. There are many many of us absolutely fed up with SNP desperate centralising, stifling of dissent and general posturing. Just check the other Grans who have posted similar views as well as mainstream media.

Interesting that the new BBC Scotland channel set up to appease SNP claims of BBC bias has recently found that on 21 occasions recently, programmes have had zero viewers. Obviously most Scottish people are not as fascinated by Scottish matters as previously thought. Something for TV licence payers to think about.

Brexit is another matter. I voted remain. I hope to remain in the EU and UK. In these times, as ever, United we stand. Divided we fall.

It really does beggar belief that there are still Scots who think Westminster is the best option for us.I'm sure many south of the border would love a government who is performing FOR its people in the way the SNP are .Over 50 000 new affordable homes ,half way decent rises for the Police an dNurses and Teachers ,small rises for carers ,mitigated austerity with no scots paying the "bedroom tax" and we balance the budget ..thats the budget that Westminster gives us out of the money we hand over to them .That money THEY call the Barnett formula ...all that means is they have control of what we bring in and they spend a huge portion of it on their wants and needs .Jane is not typical of any one I know.There have been over 5000 NEW members of the SNP in just 2 days this week....no appetite for Independence ? Dont you believe it!

Good post, mcem. I very seldom post on these threads because I get so annoyed, but I don't think that Jane10, who is, of course, entitled to all her views, speaks for as many Scots as she thinks. Although the SNP government has not done everything perfectly by any means, I am one of those who are proud to live in a country where our tax money goes to such things as free prescriptions (to name but one) and also that those who earn more pay more tax. (And yes, that does include some of my family.)

"Boris just being Boris" is totally unacceptable to any intelligent Scot!
Read into that what you will!
Of all the Scots who post here, jane is the least representative.
Jura's finger is more on the pulse!

Yes we are all different and have opposing views, but there are many benefits to living in Scotland, depending upon your circumstances. The SNP do make mistakes and it is always true that the longer any party is in power, the more likely they are to shoulder the blame.

And at least, for those who think Labour or the Lib Dems would do any better, Scots get the chance to vote at the ballot box on a regular basis and the proportional representation element means all voices have a chance of being heard.

Constantly having a downer on the SNP without acknowledging the benefits their changes have made for Scotland as a whole, gets us nowhere.

Boris Johnson will be a disaster for Scotland (if he even remembers we exist) and - if it came to a straight choice between which leader would put country before personal ambition or political dogma - my money would be on Nicola.

Jane is a very intelligent Scottish woman- but I am sure no-one can speak for a whole nation. Especially when living in a very particular part of Scotland- often seen as an elite by other Scots. It is clear from discussions on GN, that Scottish members have very varied and often, opposing, views (just as people in England).

imagine not image

Can you imagine how Scots would feel being governed by a man who has stated such opinions?

As Jane10 is a Scot I find it rather odd asking her how she would image the Scots would feel.
I presume she knows.

What will it be like under Boris - nonsense, daftness, cuts and crass inefficencies - galore and so much more.

Or do you think Boris will have a beneficial effect for Scotland and its people, and not just those in Edinburgh. Please, pray tell. I am surprise but such an intelligent and sensivite woman as you are- you cannot see that when asked to jump from a Scottish frying pan, to a burning inferno ruled by BoJo from London ...

jura Boris is just spouting words. He's just being Boris. Meanwhile we've had a decade of SNP nonsense up here. We actually live it. We pay for it. We've had to put up with the daftness, the cuts and the crass inefficiencies. It's obviously hard to convey to onlookers what it's really like.

Anyone who currently gives support to Boris have to take on his words with them, and tacitally (sp?) approve of them - or refute him and his words and actions, and not just on Scotland.

Out of context, my foot

Jane10- whether I live in Switzerland or Timbuctu - Boris has officially made the above statements publicly - how could anyone in Scotland, never mind in Starthclyde- be able to trust him as a PM - especially one who wants to drag a strong Remain Scotland into disastrous No Deal.

And we are not talking here about a vague 'someone's dad' - but the dad of one of our long 'serving' GN member- how can you just (and rudely) dismiss her comment?

Of course it is the same in many countries - here in Switzerland, people in rural areas, and in te French speaking part, often feel Zurich and Geneva wag the tail- and resent their arrogance. Same in France re Paris, or the USA re NY or San Fran...At this very moment though, we are looking at the UK and the major crisis it faces. My family and friends, my grandchildren, and us, as, living in Switzerland or not- what happens next will affect us directly until probably the end of our life. So... a bit of respect and understanding, please.

Our 53 year old niece and one of her teenage daughters are currently visiting. They are distraught and disgusted by what their see- and be other older close relatives who either abstained or voted Leave, and tell them 'they do not really understand'. They have done everything not to fall out- but it is a real struggle, and has really put a spanner in the family works. Sad... tragic.

And what views on Hammond's statement that the 'loss of Scotland' would lead to increased Austerity? Somewhat different from the usual 'subsidy junkies' line isn't it?

Is that Schrodinger's Scotland, where in public it's always depicted as too poor for independence, in private, the loss of Scotish assets and resources will make the rest of the UK poorer?

I see. So someone domiciled in Switzerland and someone's Dad think/ thought that. Well good for them. However, don't forget that only 2 council areas voted for independence last time and 38 voted against. The 2 areas were Strathclyde and Dundee.
The whole question of brexit wasn't even a part of the discussion in 2014. The opportunistic SNP are trying to conflate the two referendums. Meanwhile, after more than a decade to carry out their promises they are failing in education, police and NHS. They have not taken up the 'levers' they have been offered and can't actually run the benefits system yet. Large black hole in tax intake etc etc. I could go on but it's all been said before time and again. BTW Nicola is becoming less and less popular. Check the bookies odds. That's people putting their money where their mouths are!

And, with respect (and I do mean that) - I do wonder if the middle classes in Edinburgh are out of step with the rest of Scotland

My father, a proud Scot and a Borderer used to echo those sentiments Jura
He felt the Central Belt (on the obvious basis of population) dominated Scottish politics much in the same way that many of us in the rest of the UK feel that too much revolves around London and the south east.
When faced with the prospect of home rule for Scotland, he said he did not see any advantage in being governed “by Edinburgh lawyers and Glasgow baillies “

jura Bothered? Nope.

I mean 'the Scots are a verminous race that should be placed in ghettos and exterminated' - not a 'off the cuff moment in a private event- but in a newspaper article

and also ' Scots shold be banned from being PM' or

One £ spent in Croydon is worth much more than one spent in Strathclyde'

how could any Scots, even the Tories, put up with that racism, prejudice and nonsense - and Ruth is fully aware of the dangers.

Oh yes, here it is.

Jane10- whether you like or not the SNP and Blackford or Sturgeon, etc - he says it as it is here:

youtu.be/hiE9f8jM4SE

Can you imagine how Scots would feel being governed by a man who has stated such opinions?

I have always been a fervent supporter of the Union - and was so happy when the Indep vote didn't succeed. But NOW- I truly could not blame the Scots for wanting out at all costs- I truly could not. And, with respect (and I do mean that) - I do wonder if the middle classes in Edinburgh are out of step with the rest of Scotland.

What was it exactly that BoJo said about the Scots and Scottish PM?

As eloquently exposed by Blackford today at PMQT?

Jane 10 I am wondering what your thoughts are on this piece of Today's News.

^Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson has told party members who would put Brexit ahead of preserving the UK union to "take a long, hard look at themselves".

It comes after a YouGov survey showed 63 per cent of Tory members would rather see Scotland leave the UK than Brexit scuppered^