Meanwhile in Scotland.....

Ah yes the old "look over here at a comment made 3 weeks ago" trick, possibly aimed at getting people riled at the pointed personal enquiries which are nothing to do with news and politics and nothing to do with the situation in Scotland.

It's none of any of our business, but please bear in mind that - at any stage in life - a person might have been going through a very traumatic time and there could be unintended consequences from speculating about mood or circumstances of any of us at any age.

Wouldn't it be better to debate the political points made and opinions about the topic, rather than launching a barrage of irrelevance at someone for a comment made last month?

AlisonKF

You 'resent being trapped for all those years '?
Living in England for 50+ years.
If you're now 80, it means that for between the ages of 21 and 28 you harboured resentment. 7 years?
If you're older than 80 it means that for 7 to 12 years it festered.

Surely you were enjoying a reasonably carefree life between 21 (the then age of consent) and 50+ years ago or was your life submerged in politics for all that time?

Thanks for all the links above, particularly the one to the Chris Deerin article - one of the best I've read.

One of the most astute comments is that the Brexit debate is England talking to itself.

That's certainly what it feels like, although I will be watching the TV debate out of grim fascination to see how awful it's all going to get by Halloween.

I suggest you may find some useful info in the 3 articles mentioned above.

Does Scotland have enough people paying enough tax to sustain the country's spending?
Would enough people want to relocate? Would there be enough housing and infrastructure to sustain a purported burgeoning economy?
A lot of work needs to be done if Scotland wants their independence to flourish.

Ps omit "doing"! Don't know how that sneaked in.

Thank you for those articles. Unfortunately those who have most need of such information are the very ones who just won't even think of doing reading them.
Ps Maizie where in Scotland do you fancy living?
Happy to start looking for suitable properties for you!

Something else to worry about for those in Scotland, Wales, NI and the North of England:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/tories-would-now-rather-face-scottish-independence-lose-brexit?fbclid=IwAR3JUh7KnHLPEQKTjM9O2-NqndazcP7cVDBl0u-xGYA3zVnygMEkrDzxK6o

I read it v quickly - I'm on my lunch break at work. I've heard DH talk about Richard Murphy, he's quite an interesting character

I'm not a nationalist, SirChengin, I'm not even Scottish. But I do take an interest as I have relatives in Scotland (English immigrants .

I hope you read my link...

Can you clarify what those repetitive argumentative questions were? I saw (and posted) questions relating to factually incorrect information which was posted - but surely you wouldn’t expect anything else? Or is this simply a thread for nationalists to post their views and anyone else should keep quiet in order to keep things nicely on track for you?

MaizieD you are quite right. Perhaps I expressed it badly. Mostly, people do try to back up their discussions with facts and I enjoy reading many articles posted here.

I just feel a bit weary when every sensible comment is met with the same argumentative questions over and over, as seemed to be happening earlier in the thread.

Glad to see it back on track and raring to go today.

Thank you for that very interesting link.

Richard Murphy (of the Tax Justice Network) has always contended that an independent Scotland would be able to run a successful economy and that the data which is currently used to apportion 'revenue' to Scotland is inaccurate.

He does stipulate that for an independent Scotland to be successful it has to have its own currency.

His latest blog post on the topic is here:

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/06/03/scotland-is-being-shafted-by-dodgy-data-from-westminster/

I hope that both sides of the 'debate' will find it interesting.

P.S. I've never thought of News & Politics as an 'opinion' forum. Surely it's a discussion forum to which one can bring facts and figures to back up one's opinion

I really hope Alec Ross's article gets the widest possible viewing.

That's the best thought-out and most intelligent comment I have read about the current situation.

Well done to the Orkney News for publishing it and for not placing it behind a paywall. Some issues are too important to be restricted.

Thank you Mr Ross from a farming area of Aberdeenshire where we are already in deep trouble and fear being pushed over the Brexit cliffedge with Scotland's hands in an undemocratic vice and our voice choked by a five-year-old bad decision to stay in a southern-centric union that is now determined to commit economic suicide, taking the rest of the family with it.

Thanks Paddyann

Brilliant article PA - am off to share it elsewhere.

From Farmers for Independence

theorkneynews.scot/2019/06/07/burden-of-proof/

Further Information about Spain's position on an Independent Scotland's place in the EU:

^SPAIN’s top diplomat in Scotland has declared clearly and unequivocally that the Spanish government will not block an independent Scotland’s entry into the European Union. Miguel Angel Vecino Quintana, the Spanish Consul General in Edinburgh, laid out his country’s position in the strongest terms yet in a letter copied to Scottish Government civil servants. He also stressed it has “always” been the Spanish government’s policy not to veto an independent Scotland membership of the bloc – busting what was a major Better Together myth once and for all.
The diplomat also made clear “there is no queue” that an independent Scotland would have to join in order to become a full EU member^

Bemused/irritated/whatever. It’s one of the downsides of being on a thread where misinformation is corrected, governments are questioned and insults are rebutted.

I'm not irritated. Just slightly bemused.

No - what we've had is insults about the intelligence of unionists, financial misinformation and vague statements about detail or even vague outlines of plans from the SG simply not being required at this stage. These are not well researched or thoughtful responses.

Now, if that irritates you to the extent that you liken it scab picking then I'm afraid that's your issue.

I agree SirChenjin, but when people have repeatedly pointed out the facts as known and provided sensible answers, they shouldn't have to keep repeatedly trying to explain minute details about future unknown events to help you detract from the very real and worrying problems that the known Brexit mess lands all of us in.

Once we know whether we are in, out, delaying again - and on what terms - that will be the time to investigate how much will or support there is for Scexit and how we would go about it.

You've had many thoughtful and well-researched answers here, yet you keep picking at it like a child does at a scab.

No Scottish politician is going to risk making anything worse for either side of the seemingly-endless national argument about EU membership. The Tories are managing that all by themselves on an almost daily basis.

No argument required - and yes, it's an opinion forum. The thing with these pesky forums is that you do have to put forward opinions which stand up to (factual) scrutiny.

Caledonai14
'When I last looked, Scotland was still in the EU. Plenty time for planning if we lose that citizenship.
Why so desperate to find out what Scotland would do when we don't even know from one week to the next what will happen to the UK (which we are also still in)?'

Totally agree -Until we know the results of the Brexit negotiations I do not think there is any point, at this moment in time ,to go into the finer details of how Scotland will rejoin the EU should we become Independent .

This is an opinion forum. If you want an argument about any of that, I'm sure you can find it somewhere online.

There's still the Brexit omnishambles in the room despite all these "look over here" attempts.

So let me get this straight.

Scotland doesn't have a deficit
The block grant means the UK Govt keeps our money
We can be like Malta
We don't really need to know about the details re how/when/if Scotland plans to manage its future membership of the EU
It's not fair that the SNP gets picked on