Meanwhile in Scotland.....

Well Paddyann, I said my area has had a Conservative majority for a significant period of time! That is fact

Well Chucky, Unless you live in Orkney or Shetland, your Council area gave the SNP a majority in the Euro Elections! That is fact.

As an Independent Country within Europe, Scotland would have 12 seats in the EU Parliament, would join a block of like minded MEPs, have considerable influence, including right of veto and the First Minister would attend the Leaders summits on an equal footing with every other EU Country,

People have short memories. While they are still raging about the EU fisheries policies they forget that the UK representative on the Fisheries Committee was none other than ............. The Blessed Nigel Farage ........ who, as the records show, failed to attend a single meeting. Thus the UK had NO influence over the final Policy, nobody to fight to protect our valuable fishing industry and when in came to the votes in the EU Parliament, the UK's MEPs were easily out voted by the votes of Spanish, French,. etc MEPs, who had a vested interest in 'our' fishing grounds.

On another note, the Scottish people can now learn to understand, how many of the English people felt, when Tony Blair used his Scottish labour members to force through laws, which only affected the English people, and were not wanted by the majority of them.
Ah yes, the West Lothian question - one of the results being the Scottish labour MPs voting for tuition fees, which applied only to England and not to Scottish universities.

JohnD “I cannot understand how any one can be INDEPENDANT and remain in the E.U. where you have to do as they say.”

^^exactly!!

Brought up in Scotland but living for fifty odd years in England, I also resent very much being trapped for those years in a predominantly Tory voting rural area in East Anglia
Why on earth would you stay there then?
trapped - surely you had some choice? The English haven't built another wall to keep the Scots in as far as I know.

Well Paddyann, I said my area has had a Conservative majority for a significant period of time! That is fact.

You say “Surely any one with half a braIn believes their OWN country should rule itself?” However, the independence your sort talk about does not mean Scotland ruling itself. You want Scotland to be ruled by the EU and answerable to them. They will tell us what we have to do and what rules we are allowed to have! Some f*****g independence! Perhaps you are the one who has only half a brain, if you don’t have the capacity to realise this?? The Union may not always be ideal, but I would far rather Scotland is allied with the rest of the U.K., than Merkel, Macron and their ilk!!

You also say “I wouldn;t want to hand over my income to my next door neighbour and get SOME of it back.” What exactly do you think Scotland would be doing if it was part of the EU without the rest of the U.K.?? It would be doing as it was told, as the number of MEPs we would be allowed to elect certainly wouldn’t be enough to wield much authority! Scotland certainly wouldn’t be anywhere near the “top table.”

You criticise Ruth Davidson, however maybe you are unaware that she has only recently come back from maternity leave, or should this not be allowed?
Sturgeon, however, has no excuse for her betrayal of Scotland. She has been ignoring the essential day to day issues affecting Scotland, in order to prioritise her sort of Independence, which in case you didn’t notice was voted against in a DEMOCRATIC referendum!

... sounds good- or is THAT wishful thinking?

Ah the 'Braveheart Brigade' and their raucous repetition of wishful thinking.
I like Scotland. I like England. I'm profoundly unimpressed by the SNP.
UK with a new sort of coalition government and a compromise agreement with EU would potentially be a much more positive way ahead. United!

Do one with your half a brain comment Paddy - I don’t stoop to insulting you and your beliefs about independence and I expect the same from you in return.

OH dear Chucky I think you'll find my figures are correct SCOTLAND as a nation hasn't voted conservative since the mid fifties .Check it for yourself .As for Ruth being honest ,my goodness but your idea of honest and mine are worlds apart .Ruth Davidson is only in HOLYROOD because of the list system,she is also the "msp" who has held just ONE surgery in her constituency since she was "elected" .Such bile and bitterness...Surely any one with half a braIn believes their OWN country should rule itself? I know as a businesss owner I wouldn;t want to hand over my income to my next door neighbour and get SOME of it back I'd rather run the business on what it brings in...and let the neighbour do the same .YOU and Sirchengin ..oh and Jane may not wnat Independence but I can assure you the call for it has grown since 2014 when IF you remember we were told the only way to stay in the EU was by voting NO .....look how that turned out

Sorry, typing error, I must check my wretched tablet more diligently before posting!

If people on here constantly criticised Holywood, your First Minister and others with venom

1. It's Holyrood
2. We already do. The majority of us up here don't actually like the FM very much at all and we're often very critical of her and her colleagues - but that doesn't mean we hate Scotland or our fellow Scots.
3. We vote for WM politicians too and as such we have just as much right to pass judgement on them as the rUK

Paddyann yet again you spout rubbish. You can speak for yourself, but please do not include me in your pathetic version of what YOU think Scotland wants.

In case you missed it, Scotland voted to remain part of the U.K., therefore they have to abide by the U.K. vote regarding Brexit!

I agree with minniemouse that I thought we lived in a Democracy and am also disgusted about politicians trying to sabotage what the people of Scotland and the U.K. voted for!

Paddyann, Ruth Davidson is a far more honest politician than the poisonous Nicola Sturgeon, who neglects Scotland’s other needs while fighting against Scotland’s democratic choice!

Also Paddyann you say “can I just add that Scotland hasn't returned a majorityvote for the tories since 1956 thats NINETEEN FIFTY SIX .yet we've had to suffer under them because England wants them.Democracy ? Not in my book its not ,bully boy tactics you'd see in a playground when the BIG boy beats the smaller one into submission.”
My area of Scotland has voted, by majority, for the Conservatives for many years. So, by your logic we have had to suffer the bully boy tactics of the (big boy) SNP trying to beat the smaller area in South West Scotland, into submission, that has consistently retuned a Conservative MP!

The difference between us Paddyann is that you consistently consider that if a vote doesn’t go the way you want, then you don’t accept it and you want a second bite of the cherry and a new vote, whereas I stand by what the people of Scotland, and the U.K. as a whole, vote for!
Guess that makes me in favour of democracy, unlike you and wee Nic, who only care about what you want and don’t care a fig about what Scotland and the U.K. want and VOTED FOR in a democratic referendum!

I don't think it's quite the same JohnD, but thanks anyway - us Scottish people are very grateful for your explanation of how Labour party members north of the border voted a number of years ago and rest assured we'll certainly take note of what we can now learn.

I'm not sure if you've been watching the news but there's been quite a lot on there which explains why nationalists believe that being in the EU as an independent nation is a good thing.

That's true JohnD, something people tend to forget!

If people on here constantly criticised Holywood, your First Minister and others with venom, however true it might be, I think you Scots would find it it very wearisome and probably, eventually, dare I say, insulting! which actually, it would be!! This is at times how we feel when Westminster el al is vilified again and again!
The border certainly would be a problem H.G, parceling out what what belongs to who won't be easy either currency?!! None of these things as we've learned in our dealings with the EU is easy!!!! We're part owners of 'thing's in the EU, but working out our % ownership could take years, if ever!!

I cannot understand how any one can be INDEPENDANT and remain in the E.U. where you have to do as they say.
On another note, the Scottish people can now learn to understand, how many of the English people felt, when Tony Blair used his Scottish labour members to force through laws, which only affected the English people, and were not wanted by the majority of them.

I tend to stay well away from politics, but as this thread was on the daily newsletter, it caught my attention.

And I got to wondering - if Scotland gains independence from the rest of the UK, and then wants to join the EU as an independent nation - how will they managed the border between England and Scotland. Surely that will have the same problems that are currently being experiences in Ireland?

Is is their dislike of England or their dislike of the politics of Westminster? My impression is very much the latter - I haven't seen any anti-English sentiment on here, although I am a GN newbie. I've seen plenty of posts from nationalists who wish us to be free of WM to run our own affairs (very much like the Leavers), but no vociferous dislike of a country and its inhabitants.

I think also some of the problem is that some people on here from north of the border are so vociferous in their dislike of England, that it inevitably rubs us up into saying things that we don't actually mean! All the ills of the world seem, to some, to eminate from Westminter, which I know is pretty crappy at the moment, but you know constant carping can get a bit tedious!! No personal offence intended!

I'm very glad to hear that no insults were intended - but unfortunately comments about English people wanting us to have independence (we don't actually want it - we voted to remain as British as the rest of you) and angry Scots does grate somewhat.

Not sure that there is any point posting on any of these threads anymore as people are constantly taking things the wrong way or seeing an insult where none is intended. I guess it a sign of the times, but don't think Anniels comment was anything other than that, an innocuous comment!

Posters are regurgitating the same old chestnuts that have been rebutted on previous threads around Scottish Independence, eg:

Scotland is currently a net contributor to the UK coffers. All revenues raised in Scotland go to the UK treasury at Westminster and a small percentage is returned to Scotland to fund the devolved responsibilities.

Following Independence, Scotland will neither host nor contribute to the funding of Nuclear Weapons, a saving of billions ££££. Neither will their taxes be spent on infrastructure projects in London or elsewhere in England which are of no benefit to people in Scotland. Meanwhile the duties on whisky, gin, etc will be paid in Scotland, instead of as at present, attributed to England as they are shipped from SE English ports. Firms such as Tesco who operate in Scotland but are headquartered in England pay all their taxes, VAT etc. to the Treasury but these will instead go direct to the Scottish exchequer. Scottish exports exceed to the RUK and elsewhere exceed imports, giving Scotland a balance of trade surplus.

The EU has stated unequivocally, that if Scotland has committed to Independence before the UK finally Brexits then Scotland will remain IN the EU without the need to re-join. Spain has indicated that it would not block Scotland remaining in the EU as an Independent Country because it sees that as an opportunity to re address the Gibraltar situation - (If Scotland is entitled to 9 to 10% of British assets on the dissolution of the Union, then by default they will inherit a percentage of Gibraltar!!!) .

That's not to mention the 9 to 10% of all British assets e.g. the Armed Forces, the National Grid, etc.etc.

Oh dear!

Anniel - that's very magnanimous of you, but the majority of Scottish people don't actually want independence from the UK, and you'll meet no more angry, belittling Scots than we meet angry, belittling English when we go down south on holiday.

I find some of the vitriolic remarks by Scots on this thread quite insulting. You should know that many English people want you to have independence and would be happy for you. I love visiting your country and I'm about to spend nearly three weeks touring with my sons. I do hope I do not have to meet any angry or belittling Scots on our travels. English people have no devolved powers like you and some of us would like an English Parliament like you have. I do not particularly like any politicians at present, but I imagine there is little possibility of a Labour government. The Scotx and London may not like Brexit. That is fine by me but let Scotland, be free and not need any money from Englands taxes. Good luck for the future.