How very dare he!

That her intransigence in refusing to acknowledge that the referendum had been a close run thing and constantly harping on the Will of the British People, she did much to cause many of the problems she faced.

This is another of those things where leavers and remainers clearly diverge again. I believe that May's downfall was her intransigence in attempting to take into account position and wants of the remainers to the point of ignoring the leavers, who were a majority and in numbers, not a small one either.

She did not therefore deliver the vote of the majority but the will of the remainers. She extended Brexit twice. She lied both to the people and parliament , in public 108 times ( at least) . She quite possibly broke the law , although once again nothing will be done, and she has certainly damaged democracy in this country for a very long time, if not forever.

But remainers never see that. It doesnt suit them.

Neither FDR or Kennedy were perfect people but were perfect for the people- As a result both were loathed -- Kennedy so much so that he was assassinated-

There's no comfort in knowing that haters hate themselves just as much as they hate anyone else, that they live in fear beneath their narcissistic veneers-

Yes, I appreciate not all remainers feel the need to malign leave voters, and I agree too that academic qualifications are not necessarily a measure of wisdom. The remainer argument is often that a lack of formal qualifications equates with stupidity. One of the wisest men I know has no formal qualifications.

What however is 'political sophistication' M0nica? That's a new one on me. Who would be politically unsophisticated? That opens a can of worms, doesn't it?

I suppose those rowdy people with little access to higher education like Chartists, Levellers, Suffragettes, etc, were sneered at too? Populist democracy has raised its head many times in our history and the so called elite are still damning it and those who feel differently from them about issues and events. Leavers have been on the receiving end of much Remainer abuse. Remainers lacking the grace to accept the result of the referendum are guilty of pushing their divisive societal agenda. (Not all but many, I hasten to add.)

I tend not to read or post on Brexit threads. they are so very boring. I was thinking really about friends, family and other occasional conversations.

The possession of academic qualifications is not a guarantee for the possession of either common sense or political sophistication.

I am also very chary of sweeping statements about the attributes of leavers or remainers as a group. Some remainers may think as you say Day 6, but by no means all.

I am in favour of unbiased, unedited reporting.

Likewise, Beckett but there is fat chance of that with the left wing BBC agenda.

A corporation that takes public money in license fees should remain firmly neutral and merely report the news, not give us their skewed spin on it or their PC leftist agenda. It's deplorable.

Time we stopped paying the fee.

I can see that revving the leavers up to a ‘whoop whoop whoop we love you Donnie baby’ state

Another put-down.

Since when did wanting to leave the EU equate to a love of Donald (or Donnie Baby) Trump BlueBelle?

Are you another who sees those who voted Leave as lame-brains, stupid, simple....etc, etc, etc?

Please give it a rest.

I won't bore you with my academic qualifications or those of even more academic people I know who voted leave, but for your information I loathe Trump with a passion. It's not about left or right, or bright or stupid, but remainers seem to want to make it so. Says much about them...

ad

Oh MOnica there are many voices here on the Brexit threads who vociferously remind the Leave voters of those 2 very things - “ooh it was illegal so we need a second referendum now we know so much more and the first one was manipulated” - and “don’t you realise it was only advisory? If it hadn’t been so it could have been challenged in the courts, but sadly it can’t be so are you Leavers still happy to say you won?” - as nauseum.

I cannot believe the venom passed you by.

Check out some of the historic threads.

They will be educational to say the very least.

Never heard a remainer make any of those arguments Urmstongran. All the ones I know accepted the result of the Referendum, the only thing is some feel that as the result was so very close, there should be some consideration for the large remain vote in the exit negotiations.

I get particularly annoyed when Mrs May talks about it being the Will of the British People, well it isn't the will of the British People. It is the will of just over half the British people. Indeed in some of the comments about her approach to the negotiations made when she resigned. A number of commentators made just that point. That her intransigence in refusing to acknowledge that the referendum had been a close run thing and constantly harping on the Will of the British People, she did much to cause many of the problems she faced.

I know we are governed by majority votes - and not just in Parliamentary elections, but a wise government, or a local society, or PTA pays heed to how big its majority is and tailors its policies to make sure they take as many of the public with them as possible when in control.

I am not, and never will be, in favour of a second referendum. But it is worth noting that, whatever the success of Nigel Farage and the Brexit party in the European elections, in fact more people voted for parties committed to staying in Europe than for those who were committed to leaving.

Maybe he’ll be offered chlorinated washed chicken?

Or maybe he won’t be petulant and embarrassing. Now there’s a measured thought.
?

I wonder what will happen when Trump, at the banquet, petulantly demands a burger "I don't eat this foreign stuff - its not American"!?

Thank you for your voice of reason Tillybelle

Most Remainers howl that the referendum was:

a. Only advisory (which the general voting public were not made aware of by David Cameron so it’s not Leave’s fault now that we would like it to be honoured)

and

b. it was tampered with by dark forces (which those of us who voted without access to Facebook again feel aggrieved about when we are told our votes were gerrymandered)

No wonder we feel bitter now after 3 long years of fudge and obstruction!

I agree Aepgirl I think Trump is America’s Maggie Thatcher.
?

abbey ??
Well said that woman.

Silly comment phoenix in my opinion.

phoenix! Don't mention farts!!! And don't even think about buttocks! (Especially, perhaps, in this context)

phoenix
Another supporter here.
I could add more about the hoped-for reception here but would be banned !

Well, I like Boris and Nigel. Can't stand Trump though.

Sadly, abbey
"Was that post necessary Phoenix?" made me look at it! I had skimmed over because I saw a couple of rude phrases and I ignore such things!
Phoenix. That was too graphic.

Regarding "hating" a politician, I think and indeed experience that it is possible to do so even when your best knowledge of them is to listen to their speeches and hear them interviewed and to learn their beliefs and policies for the country. One can gain a huge amount of information and when a person is arrogant, does not care about very hard-working low-paid people, or people living in poor housing conditions or people whom he would place outside access to health care... well, you start to dislike them, then you find them threatening, then you hate them for being so cruel and only caring about themselves and their own types of well-paid well-off people.
I have met my MP, well whether she is still our MP is a moot point, since the Conservatives have lent us the lady next door to share for now. Ours was voted in as a Conservative. The local party members worked extremely hard for her. She owes her success in politics to these dedicated Tories (I'm not one) who gave up their time and spent their own money to support her so she gained a seat in the first instance. Then suddenly they learned she had bailed out on them and was no longer a Conservative but had begun some other "Let's hop off the sinking ship with the other rats" party. Anyway, I met her. In my house. I wrote about it. People said "She's very litigious". In other words she'll say it's not true and sue you. But her Local Conservative Office Man was here too. Maybe he would like to support my TRUE description of all that passed when she came here. For she behaved in a truly strange and alarming way. She was shouting that my furniture was in the wrong places for a start. She shouted "You do not have paint, you know you don't!" because I had decorating materials prepared ready. I assumed this was because I am disabled... She was entirely crazy, unreasonable, screaming, yelling things such as "What's that suitcase thing? What's it doing there?" It was a trumpet case. I had brought it down to oil the trumpet. Also "What is this ugly thing? Why is it here?" and "NO! that is NOT a table, you know it is not!" when I told her the round thing against the wall was the top of the oak table. Anyway what business was it of hers? She seemed to have "lost it" in terms of knowing why she had come to my house which was because I had a terrible experience with a dreadful builder. So of course, I can honestly say, along with a great many people who know her personally, I absolutely detest her.

Urmonston Yes, you're right there is a lot of hatred about - and a fair chunk of it has come from, and been incited by, Trump. Don't paint this man as some kind of victim - he is a manipulative bully.

abbey regarding the choice the electors had for the POTUS. I couldn't agree more! What a choice! I'm just glad I didn't have to make the choice......

No. Don't know him personally. But I still hate the bugger.

abbey I voted remain. I honestly thought it would be the majority vote.
But leave won the vote.
Do I want us to have another vote because people might have changed their minds?
Do I think we might need to vote again about the terms or even decide whether we still want to leave?
NO! The referendum was quite simply that the most votes would win. Leave got the most votes. I didn't vote for it, but I want it to be done, I want us to go ahead and leave! Sensibly if we possibly can. Most votes were for Leave and that's what we must do.
We cannot go back on what was promised.
abbey you are absolutely right!