Labour wins Peterborough

Ug I stand to be corrected, but did the European elections not use proportional representation? - in which case, second choices come into play, and there is no way of knowing what these are in Peterborough, I believe?

I see what you are saying newnanny (Fri 07-Jun-19 11:57:08) and, in itself, you are obviously not wrong. But India has already said it would want Freedom of Movement from a deal and we are not applying the many rules we could be within the EU. That is our lazy and incompetent government, not the EU.

Yes, there need to be changes. I have already said that but you need to start with all the facts, not just a select few. just one part of the argument does incline it towards "Ministry of Truth" publishing.

More than anything you have to ask what sort of Britain you want in the future. One that dumps its friends and neighbours; the ones it fought along-side to hold back fascism or a Britain that works with them. The same outcome is possibly obtainable, give or take another long period of austerity if we go for Brexit, as all seem to agree it would be detrimental for some long time.

Whatever we do, someone somewhere will have the upper hand from time to time but in the EU it is often us. Whatever we do the excessively wealthy will continue to try and take money from the only source there is - the poor. Elizabeth Warren said, "capitalism without rules is theft". You may or may not agree with her but that is exactly what the ERG, Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, et al want. No rules capitalism. Your money is lost - no compensation. Your pension is stolen by the company you work for - no compensation. That is what they want - a form of gambling with markets. That is what has made them wealthy beyond need and they like the model.

Never chosen to follow them for EU citizens because of pressure from EU. There is still a discrimination between EU and non EU citizens purely based on their country of origin and I don't like it.

My niece is married to Turkish man. They live in Turkey as not allowed to live in UK unless can meet non EU criteria. She was told if she married EU citizen she they could both live here. That is pure discrimination based on country of origin.

GillT57

Yes, I disagree with all enormous pensions for MEP's including Farage. I don't believe the large rewards are justified.

Restrictions are there newnanny you haven’t read it correctly.

Out governments have never chosen to follow them.

GracesgranMK3

Not Ministry of Truth but

Summary taken from of House of Commons Briefing Paper 6724 (2017).

Applications for a spouse/partner visa for a non-EEA national must demonstrate available maintenance funds equivalent to a minimum income of £18,600.

The income threshold is greater for applications involving dependent non-EEA national children.

If visas are being sought for non-EEA national dependent children, the income requirement is higher: an extra £3,800 for the first child, and £2,400 for each additional child.

Individual exceptions to the minimum income requirement cannot be made.

Various sources of income and funding can be used to meet the financial requirement, subject to conditions.
The requirement must be met each time the migrant applies for temporary leave to remain as
a family member, and when they become eligible to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain.

There are currently no such restrictions upon EU citizens. They can also claim UK benefits.

Well done Peterborough - a great result

Using the now accepted Guardian / Green Party method for Euro Elections - if you add together the Brexit Party and Tory Party, vote Labour have just lost the By Election!
?

I voted to leave EU so that is me. You did not say some leave voters for example, just lumped all leave voted in together. Fri 07-Jun-19 11:35:32

You are right newnanny. I gave you my overall view. Perhaps you would like to edit my posts in the future - I wish someone would

...

For Farage, it confirms just why he was right to bottle it and not stand himself in the seat (just imagine failing to get into the Commons an EIGHTH time). He was right to point out that by-elections depend on data (to identify and target supporters) and his party had very little of it.

But as with his previous moans about losing by-elections because rivals had a better postal vote operation, it just exposes that Farage is not running a political party, he’s the head of a massive pressure group. Add in the lack of any domestic policy and you can see why a general election would be a major problem for him. If the Brexit party can’t win a by-election, how on earth can it cope in a first-past-the-post national election when its resources will be spread thinly?

...

For the Tories, its collapse in vote share shows how Brexit is tearing their base apart. Some of their supporters flirted with Farage, some stayed at home and some may have switched to Labour on austerity. But many will also see that Remainer moderate Conservatives defected to the Lib Dems. That’s why the Tory leadership contenders have a real difficulty interpreting this result as a clear-cut warning that they need to tack closer to the no-deal nirvana that Farage espouses.

HuffPost for anyone who wants to read it all but it is the email so I am not sure if it is on the site..

Yes WhiteWave certainly likes the word fascists Eazybee
But dislikes the words Marxists and Communist being applied to Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum execs.
Even though they really are.

If these words are bandied about too regularly on just about any and every thread though, it dilutes the meaning.

newnanny does your dislike of EU expenditure extend to Farage's expenses for a job he doesn't do? What about his future massive pension?

GracesgranMK2 you made such a sweeping generalisation of all leave voters.

'Those who actually voted to leave the EU - are so unpatriotic and backward looking'.

I voted to leave EU so that is me. You did not say some leave voters for example, just lumped all leave voted in together.

I do not agree with paying EU billions every year to organise our trade deals when we can organise our own deals and use the money we save on our own country. We have a social care crisis that won't solve itself.

I grudge the UK as the second highest, of only five net contributors, having to foot the bill for 32 other countries who just take and make no net contribution. I particularly grudge paying for Junker's enormous wine bills and hotel accommodation and generally the amount of money the EU waste on moving to and fro from Brussels to Strasbourg for a few days every month which is an administrative nightmare and waste billions every year. That money could be spent on so many better uses.

I don't like the threat of an European army with undemocratic leaders appointed in charge of it. I don't want ever closer integration and demands the UK pay more and more money each year because our economy is growing faster than other countries in EU. It could be said those who want the UK to pay ever more billions to EU every year are unpatriotic.

I can honestly see the EU breaking up within 20 years.

It will be interesting to see how Farage 'bigs' this up, although there are a few desperate attempts on here to dismiss the defeat. The great man himself was unable to get elected to Parliament despite seven attempts so an employee of the Brexit company had little chance. I think his day has passed, again, and I hope the nasty gurning little man crawls back under his rock.

Excellent factual posts newnanny
Peterborough was replacing the previous Labour MP, it was a message to Corbyn that the vote was almost halved from last time.It was also a message that they didn’t like or trust the member of the BP to fully represent them.Also a message to the Conservatives that they need to do much much better.

So, it will interesting to see where the party and the Brexit Company go from here.

This is a thread about Peterborough not about re-running the referendum. I just thought I would remind you.

Whitewavemark2 I am sure we know under current EU legislation we must take all applicants from EU countries regardless of their finances, this fills most of our immigration quota so there is a much more stringent economic test applied to people from the rest of the world. (Fri 07-Jun-19 11:13:36)

More publication from the Ministry of Truth newnanny? It is simply not true.

Whitewavemark2 I am sure we know under current EU legislation we must take all applicants from EU countries regardless of their finances, this fills most of our immigration quota so there is a much more stringent economic test applied to people from the rest of the world. Once we leave the EU hopefully this will stop and a more equal and less discriminatory system will be put in place.

I am sure you are aware their are some items that we cannot import under current EU legislation, from non EU countries. Other items are given a ridiculously high tariff due to EU legislation.

A simple free trade deal with all countries gets rid of protectionist tariffs levied by EU and makes trading with all countries far more financially viable.

On an earlier post I saw a comment about chlorinated chicken from USA. No one will be forcing anyone to buy any goods. There will be a range of goods on offer in shops from many countries all clearly labelled with country of origin and you can buy from which ever country you chose. Personally I fail to see what all the fuss is about when we buy salad leaves from Spain who use the process of rinsing their salad leaves in chlorinated water prior to packaging. We also swim in chlorinated water and a small amount is added to tap water in the treatment process.

I want the UK to have a more global relationship with the rest of the world. Fri 07-Jun-19 10:43:34

I say it newnanny because it is what I see.

I too want a global relationship with the rest of the world but no one has shown me, yet, why we cannot more easily have that from within the EU trading block than as a smaller entity on our own.

At the moment people from the rest of the world who want to come to live here can't because we have to give preference to EU citizens just because they live in an EU country.

There will always be preferential treatment for those we have agreements with. Yes, the system needs reviewing and we need to invite the best of the best but those we trade with will always insist on preferential treatment, whether that is the EU, India, China or the USA. I don't like discrimination either but NFs big buddy in the US is very into it - do you think the 'Nigel Farage's' of this world are not?

I didn't just refer to one leaver newnanny. On here people are careful about what they say but elsewhere very racist comments are made. I have read those making a case that the EU has overwhelmed us with Muslims - it doesn't make pleasant reading I'm afraid but that is how they define their reasons for their vote to leave and they are your fellow travellers.

I simply don't agree with your economic view. Even if it were right why do we have to dump our allies rather than expand the deals we have through the EU? They are constantly working on that and will get better deals simply because they are a bigger trading block. They will not get them tomorrow, but then neither would we on our own. As we have been told, out of the EU trading block we will go to the back of the queue. Lever economics simply do not hold water.

But I do think the leavers are unpatriotic. Just me, but it is my opinion. And I do think there is a large swath of leavers who are backward looking. The little old men on the forum I visit and study are always looking back. I am not sure when they actually think their golden time was but the truth is it never existed. There are more leave voters than you newnanny so please, don't take it so personally.

Well said eazybee and newnanny

newnanny last time I looked we do trade with all countries around the world. Economic growth is slowing throughout the world. It is the capitalist economic cycle.

People from anywhere in the world are entitled to apply to the U.K. we have always taken more people from the rest of the world than the EU.

Your information is wrong.

I 100% endorse newnanny 's comment

I don'y support the Brexit party, but I dislike intensely the abusive use of the term 'fascists' as applied continually and inappropriately by Whitewave. (Fri 07-Jun-19 10:14:41)

But, eazybee it is her right to hold that opinion just as it is yours to disagree. Political discussion is never going to be about us all agreeing. You may find it inappropriate - others don't.

As for those Whitewave identifies, I too see the workings of fascism behind their attempt to run their countries. It's a horrible word but so is that sort of politics and what comes from it.

The words decency and Labour should never ever appear in the same sentence.

GracesgranMK3 How on earth you can say people who voted to leave the EU are unpatriotic and backward looking? It is beyond me. I voted to leave EU because I want the UK to have a more global relationship with the rest of the world. At the moment people from the rest of the world who want to come to live here can't because we have to give preference to EU citizens just because they live in an EU country. That policy is discriminatory to people from the rest of the world. I believe people from all countries should have an equal chance of coming to live in UK, and it should be dependent on their skills not where they are born. I don't like discrimination. There is nothing backward about wanting to trade with all countries around the world. Being in the EU makes this almost impossible as they have trade barriers and trade rules we cannot break. Simple free trade deals with lots of countries including EU countries too is surely the way to go and more progressive than rigidly sticking to just a few countries. Economic growth is higher in rest of world than EU and future opportunities for trade should be embraced which ever countries they are with. I want the UK to do well in its trade relationships around the whole world, so don't quite see how that makes me unpatriotic.