Cry, our beloved country

Allies in WW11?!!!! I think it was the other way round!!!! I seem to recall that Europe collapsed like a pack of cards, particularly the French! Without us, the Commonwealth, Russia and the Americans it would have been an extremely sorry story for Continental Europe!

This is a different type of division since the days of William Morris. It's a more dangerous and insidious one
Have I missed something?
Who brought William Morris into it?.

I don't ignore it WW. But I don't become "pessimistic" and "angry" about it. There are other things in daily life to think about.

Have I missed something?Who brought William Morris into it?

It was me, Maw. I expressed the view that perhaps things were more fraught in the 1880’s.
pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr196/nineham.htm

There were violent gangs in Manchester and Salford too.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/light-relief/offbeat/manchesters-scuttlers-violent-street-gang-pre-dated-peaky-blinders/amp/

Apologies for missing that.
Morris had wonderful ideals, but his insistence on craft and making by hand of course priced his products way beyond the means of all but the rich.
Perhaps his privileged background blinkered his vision .

BJ will be a Tory sticking plaster on the Brexit wound, inflicted on the Country, in order to stop the rise of the Brexit Party and Lib Dems. He will fail and either accept the May deal or threaten no deal which will close this Government down. A GE wll probably be the next big thing with Brexit on hold.

Yes Maw that was the irony wasn’t it - he hated his middle class background, but made beautiful things that only the rich could afford to buy.

I believe that although the country is in a very difficult position and there are deep and dangerous divisions within the population, there are also many signs to be witnessed of how this nation can "pull together" when much is at stake.

I have stated in other threads of how the Brexit situation has brought about much extra work in our company. That work has come about due to the stockpiling that many businesses have had to engage in as they fear that "Just In Time delivery schedules" (JIT) will be disrupted if a Customs Agreement cannot be negotiated with the European Union.

Many companies have hired extra warehousing to accommodate the above, and our Business has been involved in any number of those operations by way of setting up the Safety regimes for those additional procedures.

In the above, those of us that have been on those various sites have never ceased to be impressed by the outstanding level of ingenuity and cooperation demonstrated by those working to set up those facilities often with little planning or advanced knowledge of what is required.

There have been numerous cases of companies sharing that extra warehousing with other businesses even when they have no previous history of working together. The foregoing has been I feel a wonderful demonstration of the British People at their best, but also aided countless times by EU nationals who have come to work in this country.

For us working as ancillary to those persons and operations, it has often been a real privilege and pleasure to be part of that working environment. However, as has frequently been pointed out to us, these setups can only be a temporary holding situation, and a great deal of competitive performance throughout many British Industries will be lost if no Customs Agreement is at hand on the United Kindom Leaving the European Union.

I have stopped watching and listening to too much political wrangling.

Frankly, I think the country is going to hell in a handcart.

It all terrifies me it’s a country I no longer recognise We have gone so far back to when I remember the dreadful Enoch Powel and is oswold Moseley giving speeches to divide the country I always used to wonder how the Germans as a country could be fooled by the monster Hitler but I can see it so clear as day now and how easy it is to rev the troops into the far right hate filled direction
No we aren’t the only ones I was listening to a programme from Finland today and heard many of the same stories exactly that are wheeled out here

Yes Bluebelle I’d often wondered the same and thought surely thinking people couldn’t be hood winked just by clever rhetoric? It’s worrying that today’s rhetoric, sometimes not even that clever, can lure those who think and those who don’t, into attitudes and ideologies which take us who knows where. I guess if fertile soil is well enough prepared almost anything will grow and flourish.

Whatever problems other countries have none have the total disgust and despair of the majority of the public beleiving that the whole system is failing with no one in political life anywhere near being capable of leading the country.

Many feel as I do - that we are looking into the abyss. This from someone who is usually a little Pollyanna, awlays convinced that we will muddle through and looking back to show where this happened, but now. We will soon find ourselves grouped with countries like Libya, Somalia and other small desperately poor countries who cannot sustain a body politic. But we are not small, nor desperately poor. How did this happen?

The really sad thing throughout this summer is that it is all about survival of the Tory party and nothing about what is good for the country..
We elicited an extension from Brussels “don’t waste it”they said. I could cry.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 16-Jun-19 15:47:40

That's true I agree with what you said You only hear about survival of Tory party not about any polices or can do for this country that's because they don't have any.

Some Brexit loons would rather be poodles of the US than equal members of the EU. Of course its divisive and depressing. BJ will do to the country what he has done to his wive(s) and mistress(es).

There is an excellent article in the New Yorker magazine dated 13 June entitled "The Empty Promise of Boris Johnson" . An excellent read although rather long.

"The rhetoric is filled with words like broken, sad, worried, and angry"

Well it has to be, as it's biased towards remaining in the EU.

Really - is it just remainers who peddle this angst about a broken country? Where do you have to go to witness this 'sadness', because as ever (and such is life,) most of us are ticking over just as we always have.

I suspect you have to be a very politically motivated person to imagine we are all torn, bitter, angry and wrecked. The newspapers and online columns and keyboard warriors might be keen to perpetrate the myth that all is lost and hopeless, because well, they cannot accept the result of the referendum, but y'kno, life goes on and people are NOT wrapped up in the doom and gloom scenario some love to go on about.

I have as big a social conscience as the next person and I agree with Gonegirl. I haven't noticed society fragmenting as Remainers would like. I suspect they lap up fellow Remainers telling them all is lost.

I DID feel much more anxiety, strangely, during the union/industrial disputes of the 70s and 80s. That was very real, mainly because the electricity ould go off at all times of night and day, factories were blockaded, wild-cat strikes were rife, bins weren't collected and bodies were piling up as funeral directors were on a go-slow, along with other workers involved in burying or cremating a corpse.

We had no social media then, peddling its bias and reports of us staring into an abyss.

We are not, and as always, this time too will be consigned to the history books and we will have something else to worry about in the future, that is not EU related or to do with May, Corbyn or Momentum.

It's called life, and it doesn't always run smoothly.

More people fear Corbyn and Momentum around here than anything else.

Oh dear day6 you couldn’t be more wrong. You are letting your leave credentials blinding you to everything. The report was about all parts of U.K. society and it is as much about leavers and remainers.

It is clear from yourposts you feel just the same as the result found by the report you are unhappy and angry at not yet having left the EU.

Others are angry and unhappy because we will be leaving the EU.

The U.K. is a divided and unhappy country.

none have the total disgust and despair of the majority of the public beleiving that the whole system is failing with no one in political life anywhere near being capable of leading the country.

I agree with that M0nica - drain the Westminster swamp certainly stands.

I wonder however, if the incredible short-comings of most of our MPs/politicians and our inept two party system has been put into sharp focus because of social media discussions? We are all much more aware.

However, I do not think our present political predicament compares to the turmoil which hit us all during industrial disputes several decades ago.

Everyone has opinions of Corbyn, May, Johnson, Gove, Momentum, etc, etc, and they are voiced and broughtv into our homes via the internet.

I am happy to turn off my PC and get back to the lovely business of life, with all it's slings and arrows of misfortune and beautiful bits too. Our MPs are well paid to take the flak and make bad/or good decisions. Let us not forget they still eat in the best restaurants, travel first class and they can indeed switch off, afforded by the cushion of a good salary, good life and the promise of a damned good pension.

It is up to the individual to make the best of the bubble that is their life.

Life is about far more than politics - and it is short. A sense of proportion is needed for those determined to see the UK going to hell in a hand cart.

We tend to survive political upheaval. We have survived wars, and we hope our children and grandchildren will too. The future is not ours to see, and never has been.

Ranting online won't change anything. But it does make you wonder about people who seem to want to perpetrate an end of world scenario when things don't go their way (politically.)

It's interesting.

You're not telling us something we don't already know Day6.

The U.K. is a divided and unhappy country

It is not.

Online it may be, because it's a good place for the cut and thrust of political discussion.

At home people sigh in despair at another useless lot of politicians - but go about their daily lives as they always have done, and will continue to do.

Life has never been easy. Many of us have been besieged by difficulties, yet a sense of proportion and a two-fingered salute to the latest politician to annoy us, keeps us going, striving and looking for the best for our families, no matter what our circumstances.

Online keyboard warriors paint a picture of life that is nothing like the life that we are living right now, and hinges on politicians and policies.

Much as you'd like it to be bloody awful Whitewave most people not enjoying political discourse online, roll their eyes and accept that they can do nothing much but accept the status quo, no matter how bloody awful it is regarding our government, parliament and Westminster bureaucracy.

And it is a shambles right now. Most of us know that, but it is top of very few worry lists even though people like you (an on-line left winger) want us to feel helpless despair.

Life goes on. Always has.

I know I am not EllanVannin but it needs saying never the less, because some people on here have an agenda to promote despair, anger, helplessness.

It happens online in political forums like this one, and newspaper columns.

If I can't sleep at night because of worries, I can assure you they are not ones brought about by the shambles that is Westminster and our MPs.

Day6 - You are right that "life is about more than politics".
In the 1970s and early 80s we had the collapse of the mining industry- which devastated whole areas and communities and also threats of nuclear war. Some of us were anxious about this as we had young children and wanted them to have a future.
Then we had the Chernobyl disaster and were more worried for our families - and our world.
And NOW we may be causing the collapse of our world and some people "in power" (who don't believe in climate-change) just don't care...
So yes, it's certainly not just politics, but many decisions that affect us all in all sorts of ways are ultimately political.

Grandad1943 you are SO right that in a perceived crisis we can (and do) often pull together. But you are also right that it's better not to have the crisis in the first place!

You are getting this so wrong day6

You are letting your assumption that i am a left wing poster get in the way of making a rational argument about the findings by a company situated in Somerset House in London. They have carried out many of these sort of researches in the U.K. and in previous years they would have undoubtedly produced results that chimed with your world view.

You need to either provide evidence that contradicts their findings or otherwise your annoyance seems a lot of hot air.