Cry, our beloved country

Horse passports are nothing to do with the EU!!!

Horses have always travelled worldwide for competitions.
(I am a horse owner). Horses regularly fly to America, Australia for races, 3 day events, Showjumping Grand Prix etc. Horses and competitors from outside the EU come to EU Countries to compete also.

I cannot see anything wrong with having to prove that you are able to support your family before moving to a new country. It happens with people wishing to move here from outside the EU, it happens in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and many more.

Having just had our AC’s married partner “fill in the form on line” and be accepted immediately I cannot see how I am meant to respond jura2.
Also a good friend (Godparent to one of our children) has been here for 40 years married to a Brit has also just completed this form and accepted.

I can only speak from experience rather than “what maybe”

Positive messages and facts should be welcome on this thread GG13 as a balanced view.

Your title should read- 'cry, our beloved member state'-that's all we are until we get out of the EU; we are not a country in our own right at the moment!

Your title should read- 'cry, our beloved member state'-that's all we are until we get out of the EU; we are not a country in our own right at the moment!
Absolute rubbish! Of course we are a country. You only have to visit any other country in the EU to see how they all have their own individual identities and differences.
What do you think will change when we become "a country in our own right"?

Positive message. Belonging to the EU is a good thing. It no more doesn't makes me any less British than being British makes me any less English. Pooling sovereignty gives that sovereignty more agency not less. We have deals and arrangements within the 28 that we could not possibly get if we pitch ourselves against 27. That promise was simply not true - like so many that were made.

Hear, hear GG13

It’s great to have some facts in place of hyperbole!

"I cannot see anything wrong with having to prove you are able to support your family before moving to a new country. It happens in Australia, New Zealand and Canada and many more"

Yes I can attest to that GG, many years ago when I was married to my first husband we applied to go and live in Australia, he was working for a big American bank and had been told he could get a transfer to Australia if he wanted it. He was from overseas anyway and a lot of his family were there already. I remember going to an interview at I think Australia House which was quite gruelling. They wanted to know that we had somewhere to stay in the form of sponsors, how much money we were going to be bringing with us, we had a house to sell and they wanted to know chapter and verse how much equity we had in it, confirmation of husband's prospective employment. We were also told that we wouldn't be eligible for any form of benefits until we had worked for 7 years and put something back into their system. The rather snappy interviewer also told me that I'd be more of a problem, as husband had already uprooted himself once so was therefore more adaptable, but I'd be homesick That interview wasn't a particularly pleasant experience and the resounding message was "we don't want anyone to be a burden on our country" We did however get the required residents' visa stamps in our passports, but in the end we had second thoughts, my husband told me "I don't want to go, I think I'd really miss England too much, among other things, I love the seasons here", just didn't want those everlasting blue skies

I have also read recently that Australia plans to deport a very old grandma back to England, all her family are there, she's in her 90s and the elderly persons' home she is in has become too expensive after she suffered a stroke, she has no remaining relatives here. Plus also a family with a young child who needs expensive specialist health care, have also been asked to leave. Ruthless were my thoughts !

Great book btw. Cry thy beloved Country.

Yes, a good book ( Cry, the beloved country) by Alan Paton,
I read this when young and carefree, I expect it’s out of print like most old books now.

ah lemon, sharp as a tack,the not thy.

I was shocked to heard about the elderly grandmother who may be deported from Australia; however, her visa ran out a while ago and I do not think she is self-funding. Despite that, I hope the Australian authorities grant her leave to remain.
I haven't heard about the young child.
They are not totally ruthless, they do accept refugees and many, many immigrants - but they are discerning.

The same thing has happened here, ~Terribull, with Commonwealth citizens (Canadian, Australian, Ghanaian etc) being deported from the UK so perhaps now there are rumours that the same could happen to EU citizens, people are suddenly becoming more aware.

anyone who thinks we aren’t a country can’t have travelled much if they think we are identical to France, Germany, Italy etc.

Besides which, the title of the thread would have to be changed.
"Cry, the Beloved State"

oh, I see that has already been suggested

I saw this quote today. In or out of the EU and no matter which political party is in power I hope that my children and grandchildren won’t have a future in a country that’s to be pitied.

Who has read the book Cry, the Beloved Country?

What is happening here is perhaps as described in the OP, but nothing like the events in the book.

In some respects the Brexit referendum itself was a violation of human rights, argues Adrian Low. Three substantial groups were denied the opportunity to vote when inclusion of any two of those groups would almost certainly have reversed the result. Rational democratic decision-making was negated by a campaign of exaggeration and lies and unnecessary last-minute poll predictions encouraged complacency in the turnout for Remain.

The connection between human rights and democracy is well known. It is written into many national constitutions, in the UN declaration on human rights and in the EU treaties. Statements typically say that individuals, irrespective of country, culture and context, are equal in dignity and rights and a country’s democratic processes should protect the individual’s opportunity to influence their governance and uphold their human rights.

The European Court of Human Rights, for example, has highlighted the human right to elected representation and has developed case-law guidance on the rights of citizens to vote.

The UK Human Rights Act includes three areas where the Brexit vote has, or potentially will, deny human rights. These are Article 3 of Protocol 1: the right to the free expression of the opinion of the people, (in elections/referenda); Article 14 which makes it illegal to discriminate on a wide range of grounds including … national or social origin, and Article 5: the right to liberty and security.

The Brexit vote potentially affects many EU and UK expats’ ability to retain their current home, the current education of their children, to be able to afford health care, to own property and businesses, to employ others to live securely and to travel freely etc. It is a basic human right for each such individual to have a voice and to have a vote.

Three groups were denied the right to vote at the referendum. They were not offered the opportunity to influence the outcome.

Denial of resident rights, denial of youth rights, denial of the proper factual basis of a right of free choice.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/01/30/the-brexit-referendum-was-a-violation-of-human-rights/

The fraudulent referendum was a denial of human rights and a corruption of democracy.

I’ve read it donkey years ago. All I can remember is that it described the growing gulf and division between the society in SA, which eventually led to apartheid.

I felt that there was a tiny resonance with the way our country has become so divided and so borrowed and changed the title to suit that is all, as simple as that?

It's on kindle for £4.99. In two minds whether to buy it. Has anyone read it recently? (ie when old and jaded)

If you are interested in the SA situation pre-apartheid and a story about how tribal life disintegrates. I can’t really remember exactly the characters in it though. I think I’ve still got it somewhere.

Most countries have their problems, best not to stress it could be worse, we could have the dynamic duo, Corbyn and Abbott.

It's so long since I read it and probably gave it away, so perhaps I may download it to my Kindle, thanks Gonegirl.

We could have gone to live in SA years ago, but I decided I could not live there, and have friends in what was S Rhodesia too.

Varian - thank you for all the work that you put into your last post above. Somehow I doubt that the Leavers will agree with it.

Had the referendum result gone the other way,and Remain had the larger vote, would varian and any other poster who agrees with the sentiments in the long post above been protesting that the under 18’s didn’t have a vote or the EU members? I think not.