Do we want a pound shop Trump?

It is interesting to look at the backing for Johnson. Steve Bannon seems to have his interfering fingers everywhere. It is reported that Bannon and Johnson first met in the White House in early 2017 and it appears they have been in contact ever since.

Although close NF for some considerable time and a promoter of the far-right activist Stephen Yaxley Lennon also known as ‘Tommy Robinson" Bannon seems to feel he will have greater influence with Johnson as Prime Minister and suggested he should challenge Theresa May. The outcome of the undermining of TM was clear for all to see.

Does this actually matter? Should we care that the man who manipulates Trump now appears to be manipulating the front runner for PM? We can see the language (subliminal?) being used in both countries. "Deep State" is not a natural description of our civil service which many would see as the best in the world, with no political mandate. But Boris has made use of this phrase even though it seems something he was not exactly comfortable with.

“The Remainer Establishment — or Deep State, if you prefer — is… so arrogant, so complacent, so contemptuous of the public that it’s scarcely bothering even to hide its tracks.”

This is a phrase I have seen repeated back, on the right-wing, Tommy Robinson praising, sites I chose to study. But surely Johnson should be careful. Do we really want our Prime Minister to be involved with someone who is actively being investigated by the FBI with reference to interference by a truly "deep state" and a rather more hostile one - that of Putin's Russia.

GabriellaG24 always defending the bankers.....utter rubbish to say envy is as bad as greed.......
we are being driven into a destroyed nation by greed, the planet is being destroyed by greed, not envy.

I don't know why you are so defensive of bankers, but they are not the saviours of the world.
We need to be a more caring and fair society and there is no way that suits the banking industry.

If Bannon is talking with Johnson then I doubt we have a clue how bad things could get. I still do not understand how Johnson has so much Tory support because he is known to be a liar.

"as the phrase attributed to Admiral Lord Nelson says, a "nation of shopkeepers"

Napoleon Bonaparte, dear.

So often we base our decisions on misinformation. People have been brainwashed to think that government debt is our enemy. Debt certainly can be but what is most likely to set off the next financial crisis is personal debt. One of the reasons this has risen so much is that, in an attempt to lower government debt, more has been taken from the poor than the rich.

We see the rise of percentage-man (or woman). The earlier example of a person working in what is euphemistically called "banking" and a footballer is an example of this. The footballer exchanges his skill for a wage. The better he is the greater his wage. We can argue about whether this has gone too far but that is not the same as the percentage person.

The "banker" exchanges increase wealth earned for others for a percentage of that wealth. In other walks of life, percentagers exchange short-term payments of debts for a percentage added to that debt.

The percentager feeds mostly off the poor. If I have sufficient plus a bit I can use 'credit' that charges as a percentage. Even better I can use that credit free for a period in some cases without incurring higher charges - I pay off the credit with my excess income.

If I am poor, with not enough to live on let alone excess income I will, in the main, dare not use credit. I cannot pick up the bargain, the slightly more expensive that saves me buying twice, etc. If catastrophe hits and I can only cook, feed my children or get to work by using the percentagers credit I will be forced into increasing debt.

Most of us would see ourselves as a country of businesses or, as the phrase attributed to Admiral Lord Nelson says, a "nation of shopkeepers". When Johnson talks up businesses he is not talking about the people who invest their money and, by their own efforts, grow a business. No, when he talks about these "backbone of Britain" businesses he says "f* business". The only business the percentager neoliberal wants to know about is "banking" or the roulette wheel of the city to be more precise. He feeds off the work of others.

This is the economy that Johnson and his cronies want. This is not how I see Great Britain and I wonder why so many think it is what we stand for.

Agreed, great post.

Perhaps one of my biggest fears currently for the UK- is the massive brain and skills drain that will ensue. Not just the EU and foreign doctors, nurses, researchers, scientists, innovators, etc - but our own young people. Talking to nephews and nieces and sons and daughters of friends- from teenagers to those in their 50s - they are all distraught and disgusted by what is going on ... and are all planning their escape- as they can't see a future in a post No-Deal Brexit.

Good post gg3

Money makes the world go round? No, it doesn't, people do. Only the neo-liberal takes the meaning of life as the economy working for 'money' rather than for people. 'Money' is not sentient, it cannot make moral choices. In the hands of a good person it can be used for good; it the hands of an evil person it can be used for evil. This country has moved far too far towards the 'no rules where money is concerned' that is the aim of the Johnsons and Trumps of this world.

They want fewer and fewer limits and rules on how they may treat people in order that they and others like them may have wealth that far exceeds their needs. The fact that both employees and customers are people does not matter to them. The fact that many now are forced, by their government, into a form of slavery where their basic needs cannot be earned, is due to the thinking, by recent governments, that wealth without rules is more important than people.

This is whole new dimension to an already alarming scenario (to some of us at any rate). Fascism is on the rise and we Brits are struggling to leave the EU - which was originally formed to head off another destructive war in Europe.

You really couldn't make it up.

ITV reports the Bannon video:

www.itv.com/news/2019-06-23/boris-johnson-under-more-pressure-as-steve-bannon-talks-about-helping-his-speech-in-video/

Here is the actual video. Shot in 2016

mobile.twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1142827640514142208

Not some leftie journalist's fabrication from minimal evidence...

Johnson had previously denied knowing Bannon.

However, this is likely to have had minimal exposure where it matters, to the tory party members who will vote for the new leader. But even if they did see it, after the shocking revelations last week that tory party members are happy to see the wholesale destruction of the UK in order to achieve Brexit, I don't suppose they'd be bothered by it.

day6 you need to get out more.

Bannon has been sniffing around Europe even before he. was unceremoniously given the boot by trump as being too hot to handle.

Even the right wing Italians couldn’t stomach his plans to open a fascist training school in an old monastery in Italy, so it says a lot about his credentials.

Bannon and cronies are a dangerous mob with money, who are intent on spreading his abhorrent message based on white superiority and racism. Many in Europe will follow his message, it is our job to ensure that sort of politics never returns to our continent and the evil it is.

You're right GillT57 and he gave the interview in the Observer. His influence both puzzling and alarming. How does he achieve such a wide influence? What is his motivation?

He has founded 'The Movement' in Brussels. However, I see the Italian government have stopped his plan for his 'gladiator school' for right wing training near Rome. Why is he doing this?

actually day6 you don't have to go to the 'left wing press' as you call it to find adverse reports on Johnson, without exception the right wing broadsheets and Sunday tabloids were giving him a pasting today.

Interesting.

Type in Steve Bannon and the first three reports are about seven hours old and from left wing papers.

Smells of "Let's topple Boris Johnson at this crucial point by any means" desperation to me.

Just saying.

He supports every far right political party in Europe - Le Pen, Orban, Wilders, Salvini, AfD

Blimey - he gets around a bit!

And we know this because......???? Left wing journalism I'd imagine?

He sounds awful but what is the magic power he has to influence people as you suggest he does?

Could it be a case of being tainted by association rather than Bannon being bosom buddy to all the politicians and groups you name?

It does sound like you might be flinging mud and hoping it sticks to any right winger in the vicinity yet again Whitewave

I shall do some reading around.

Bannon is a crucial link in the alt-right movement.

Nandalot Was it the article in the Observer today? That is very disturbing with Bannon making claims about his links with Johnson and the latter denying them. Bannon claims to have advised Johnson about his speech for the launch of his pitch in the election of Leader.

You can find a synopsis here:

inews.co.uk/news/politics/donald-trump-strategist-steve-bannon-boasted-of-helping-boris-johnson-despite-denials/

Whitewave, thank you for the opening post. I was unaware of Bannon’s connection with Boris Johnson and have now read a further article about it. It is truly disturbing.

Money makes the world go round and if there were no moneymakers there would be no businesses. Businesses need loans, many people need loans and mortgages, who d'you think makes the money for banks and financial institutions to service these needs?
All are cogs in the wheel of life but it's not good to sneer at those who earn more, whatever the level. It certainly doesn't mean that they aren't caring or give nothing back to society but even if they don't, it's no-one else's business but theirs.
Envy is as bad a trait as greed.

Yes, Hunt certainly is a better choice and I have my fingers crossed he will be chosen for the PM.
The alternatives .....Johnson as PM or a GE and Corbyn as PM are too horrible to contemplate.

given how much danger we are all in because of the pollution and other environmental issues I think people just chasing money do look very shallow and uncaring.
When greed comes into a person then everyone else seems to suffer.
We are supposedly a wealthy country but without enough paramedics/ambulances/hospital beds etc.

I have been watching the BBC series Ambulance and it is often heartbreaking to see the damage the cuts are doing.
If all those working in the Emergency call centres for example decided "that's enough I want to be a banker" then we won't have any kind of caring society at all just go back to a dog eat dog world.
Because of money chasing.
We have lots of middle management but not enough doctors and nurses.
I am using the NHS just as one example.

Govt cuts to councils mean not enough social care.
People are suffering.
because the people at the top are chasing private wealth.

Too much is justified by saying money, and it is not going to make for a healthy planet. Or a healthy society

So if Johnson is linked to Bannon then yes we are going to hell even quicker. Not that Hunt is any better choice.

Back to the thread.

Let then call you racist...Wear it as a badge of honour’ - Steve Bannon addressing National Front rally with Marine Le Pen.

Four months later, he was advising Boris Johnson

gg54 I’m sure readers are intelligent enough to understand that, and don’t need it to be tediously spelled out.

Welshwife
Each to their own.
People get satisfaction in various ways and who is to say which us right and which is wrong?
As you rightly say, some bankers both male and female would not be able to teach but you omitted to say that, by the same token, teachers or nurses would not be able to make money in the world markets or be hedge fund managers etc.
There are two sides to every coin and maybe those working in the financial sectors get a great deal of pleasure from making gains for their firms and being able to provide a nice standard of living for their families.
Show me a person who would turn down claiming a salary which exceeded the amount they needed to live on, I can just picture that scenario.
'£1m bonus?...oh no, I couldn't. Just give me the equivalent of a teacher's salary and I'll be happy'.
Tommy rot.

In that case it might be as well to write 'some bankers' and not just lump them all together by writing 'bankers' or 'the bankers', after all, it wouldn't be right to lump all GNers together under one heading such as 'argumentative' or 'judgemental' or would that be acceptable too?
I doubt it.

Why do people assume that because some of us criticise bankers that we are envious? We are however critical of their misdemeanors. The 2008 crash was caused by Americans and their sub-prime mortgages but the Labour Party and Gordon Brown are still blamed for the crash in the UK which was of course, a knock on effect of the US crash.

The film Margin Call starring Jeremy Irons is a story about 24 hours in the life of a Wall Street investment bank during the 2008 crisis. The film, which is based upon the collapse of Lehman Brothers, was shot over 2 weeks in their empty offices. Well worth a watch if you come across it.

As GG54 wrote above "their remit is to make money, indirectly for you and me". The crash certainly benefited some people, including Brits, who were able to buy houses in Florida at knock down prices as a result of the repossessions.