Boris says Oz ‘points system’ coming here.

Sorry this was in response to Stella1949's comment about EllenVannin being able to emigrate as a remaining relative.

ThanksGracesgran
I'm sure DD2 would like to know if she doesn't already.

Actually this is not the case. It is not possible to sponsor a parent for a remaining relative visa. There are various types of parent visas and unless you can afford it there is an option for which the waiting list is around 30 years. Otherwise it means forking out tens of thousands of pounds for a Contributor Parent Visa, and the wait for this if you applied today is 6-8 years. In addition your UK pension will be frozen at the rate you are receiving it when you arrive in Australia. So it is not a simple matter for a parent to emigrate to Australia.

Callistemon* I'll ask. They land on Monday so it won't be before then.

I don't understand you feeling like a second class citizen EllanVannin surely the Syrian people are being offered a safe place to live where they not suffering the horrific effects of war. That's quite a separate thing from people emigrating for a better life or to be with family.
You certainly went through a terrible period in your life at that time, I hope you are able to be happy now and enjoy your grandchildren etc.

I think we need to monitor those coming in and out of the country before changing anything. Admittedly I only know what the media says but it does seem fairly easy to get into the UK and overstay visas. We had someone working on a visa on a scheme for highly qualified people but she was doing a mundane job. Her visa ran out and she asked me to write and say she was vital to the company, she wasn't. She was quite upset with me and said her friends all got the company to write such a letter. Her appeal failed. She was lovely but I felt it important to follow the rules.

I have been to the ceremony for becoming a British Citizen and there were people there who didn't speak English which made me feel they hadn't made enough effort.

I a not anti-immigration, I think it is a good thing but I do think we need to control the process better.

The way I look at it, our ‘system’ is not fit for purpose and hasn’t been for years. Our politicians have been too soft!

What are the tax breaks the Australian government gives to immigrants, please?
I have never heard of that.
I do know that any pension contributions which the Australian employer has to pay for temporary workers get refunded to the worker when they leave the country which seems rather unfair on the employer.

Opal are you referring just to the Australian system of permanent immigration?

Other workers can apply for short-term working visas, business visas etc, and even tourists have to have a visa.

They have just relaxed the rules and are allowing people under 35 to apply for a third one-year working visa, but a certain length of time has to be spent on farm work before a 2nd year visa is granted.
Presumably they need more young workers/tax payers at the moment.

At one time retired people had to have quite a substantial sum of money before emigrating to Australia, plus close relatives who were citizens there too. I understood you had to be able to pay for your own healthcare.

Blondnana - we already have lots of doctors and nurses coming from abroad - our current system allows for that. Non eu citizens cannot claim benefits as a general rule and I think have to have a job to come to - I’m sure someone better versed in our current system will correct me if necessary

Thumbs up m0nica.

Thank you Stella1949. I do know a little about it but will try and find out more over the next few weeks while by son and his family are over from Australia. He is quite a useful source for me as he has the comparison with UK politics.

Ellen's post shows the complexity of the system as does suziewoozie's. I wonder if the grumpy old men, whose posts I read with great despair because of their shallow xenophobia, will still be rooting for this when they hear of the tax breaks "immigrants" can receive under the Australian system. The second problem is that we already have a system but we have run it appallingly badly; why would we be any better at running any this one? Thirdly we will all be fishing in the same pool for a finite number of the highly skilled (apparently the only ones Boris wants). Fourth, well let's stop here for a moment shall we.

I am all in favour of a system which is transparent and workable but you come back each time to the calibre of those who we hope could run it. I am not convinced, simply because of the quality of those wanting to be "king", that changing the system is all we need. Although my grumpy old men may be. Simple rhetoric goes a long way with them.

I agree with the ponts system, we need skilled workers. Drs and nurses etc,its the unskilled who come and live off benefits we dont want, it is hard enough for our own people to live comfortably ,
Immigration need controlling

I do not understand how this system would help, given that many of the people we most require are not in high points jobs - farm workers, carers, nurses, in junior roles. None of whom are likely to meet any points or salary minimums.

In the 1980's we were a family of four left after D and Sil emigrated so we did apply to go and were sponsored by D.

We had sufficient funds etc and I actually had a job waiting for me at the Royal North Shore Hospital. We were given a date until after the results of H's medical held us up and he had to have further tests. Then my D here got pregnant, SiL died suddenly and my mum a month later so that put paid to that and so it was on hold.

However my H took ill and was diagnosed with cancer-----so just about everything was against the move. Even though initially after my H had had a shonky x-ray they were prepared to take us as it was nothing contagious, but it wasn't to be.

After another visit when I was widowed and a further GS was born here I still hankered after moving there but the years rolled by and before I knew it it was 2000 and 6 years later my GD was having children.

There is a " family count " that if you're leaving more family from the country you were born in than there are in the country you expect to live in, they're hesitant in allowing you to leave your birth country.

I suppose in a way that I haven't been happy not doing what I'd wanted to do while everyone else was merrily getting on with their lives.

My D's friend's mother moved to Oz when she was in her 80's simply because there were no siblings in this country and the friend had been prepared to look after her mother, as well as having an annexe for her to live independently.

The rules are pretty strict for an English-speaking country which is still part of the Commonwealth-----it doesn't make sense as the country has accepted dozens of immigrants from Syria and beyond. It makes me feel second-class !

The above has an interesting discussion of points based system vs employer led systems - it demonstrates how complex and varied the issues are . Certainly there is no silver bullet regardless of what any politician says.

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7662/CBP-7662.pdf

This describes our current system and describes it as points based.

I’m still looking for an analysis of how the two systems compare taking into account the differences between our two countries. I’d be grateful for any links people have.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/work-visas-and-migrant-workers-in-the-uk/

I’ve discovered the Migration Observatory ( based at Oxford University) as a good source of information. This link explains our 5 tier system for would be non- EU immigrants.

I agree with Oldwoman70 & Jane10 It seems like a fair system and something the UK could consider.

The Australian system seem quite reasonable and fair. We looked into it at one point. They were looking for people with my skills but not DH's. It was clear, understandable and we accepted the reasoning behind it.
Bring it on.

EllenVannin as a remaining relative, your daughter could have sponsored you to live in Australia. You have to go though the normal type of vetting process but it's common for people to sponsor family members to emmigrate. You get permanent residency and are able to claim benefits and Medicare immediately.

Australia also has long waiting periods to claim benefits and Medicare ( NHS), after you become a resident . Between 2 and 4 years depending on which benefit you are claiming.

paddyann the points system would not stop "nurses, doctors and health care workers" coming to UK as those would be the skills we would need, it would limit those who have nothing to offer the country.

I have family in Australia, when I was widowed I looked into moving there with them. In order to do so they would have to undertake to sponsor me, I would have to put up a substantial bond to ensure I would not be a burden on the Australian state and have to prove I was not suffering from any serious medical condition. I see no problem with a similar system for UK.

But maybe you ought to have ‘gone through the rigmarole’ EV then, more than likely, you’d be there now. But if you have family here too (?) perhaps, deep down, you were torn and that swayed you not to try?