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Boris says Oz ‘points system’ coming here.

(89 Posts)
Urmstongran Wed 26-Jun-19 22:21:00

He’s announced this today to wild cheering at the hustings.

What do we think?

paddyann Wed 26-Jun-19 22:36:46

There have alwys been control on immigration ..the UK government didn't enforce most of them .Westminster is/was at fault not the EU .As we NEED immigrants badly in a lot of areas lets hope Boris doesn't get in or that his points system wont chase away the nurses and doctors and health care workers and all the other trades where we are pretty desperate for people.In fact lets hope Boris and the tories just fall off the planet'll be a far better place without them !

Opal Wed 26-Jun-19 22:49:01

About bloody time! grin

suziewoozie Wed 26-Jun-19 23:08:40

I don’t know enough to comment on this yet - I would need to understand the Australian system, how well it is working and if it would be appropriate for our very different society and then compare it to the system we are using at present for non-EU migrants and how well that is working. That’s a lot I need to know.

GracesGranMK3 Wed 26-Jun-19 23:18:29

How much do you actually know about the system in Australia opal? It would be good if we could all know in detail so we can understand why we should share your enthusiasm.

stella1949 Thu 27-Jun-19 02:32:40


Here is the link to work out if you have enough points to emigrate to Australia. You need to accrue 60 points to pass.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 27-Jun-19 07:29:36

So Australia uses the point system to encourage immigration, albeit of the sort of skills they need, their total level of immigrants is a much higher % than the U.K.

So how Johnson expects this to work is yet to be made clear, although the present government does operate a type of points system from immigrants outside of the Eu, and largely leave it up to industry to police this. What Johnson is definitely not saying is that he intends to reduce immigration.

Anja Thu 27-Jun-19 07:34:30

Boris ‘says’ what people want to hear.

Urmstongran Thu 27-Jun-19 07:48:19

Mr Johnson said: ‘We must be much more open to high-skilled immigration such as scientists, but we must also assure the public that, as we leave the EU, we have control over the number of unskilled immigrants coming into the country. We must be tougher on those who abuse our hospitality. Other countries such as Australia have great systems and we should learn from them.’

Whitewavemark2 Thu 27-Jun-19 07:53:12

Yes, that’s we he said, but in truth it isn’t a huge difference from what we have now. It is just that the government had never enforced the rules. The only difference will be that people coming here will be coming to a job.

At the moment the rules say that if you arrive and are not employed within months of arrival you must leave the U.K., this has never been enforced.

EllanVannin Thu 27-Jun-19 07:53:24

Ah, the points system !
Because my D and SiL emigrated to Oz and became citizens there in the 80's and I'm the mother of my daughter, I can't choose to live there just like that, without going through a load of questioning etc etc and even then I could be turned down, yet my daughter is settled there and made it her home. So unfair that I never had the choice without going through the rigmarole of emigration.

Even if I'd overstayed my holidays, I wouldn't then have been allowed back into the country for 5/6 years.

It's a heart-breaking system for those who are left behind------so NO to a points system here !

I'd love my GD and her children to have better lives but they can't just up sticks and go. Australia needs populating more than we do and given the choice I'd be there instead of here.

Urmstongran Thu 27-Jun-19 08:03:56

My next door neighbour who emigrated to Australia about 8 years ago now, had to have a job to go to, a place to live and she had to show that she could keep herself and her two children. That is the way to do it.

Why should a Country and it`s people, feed, keep and house others who haven`t worked or paid into the system. It`s just ludicrous and needs to stop.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 27-Jun-19 08:08:15

It doesn’t, that is an urban myth. However I am happy to be proved wrong if evidence is produced.

suziewoozie Thu 27-Jun-19 08:09:32

What system do we have for non-EU migration? I thought we had work permits, minimum salary level etc? Surely also some of our problems are caused by emigration - some of our best scientists, doctors, nurses leave? So perhaps it would be useful for Boris Johnson to come up with retention ideas as well as ideas for training more home grown talent. That’s why I think this topic is so complex and there are no quick fix solutions but rather a raft of short, medium and long term planning is needed

Urmstongran Thu 27-Jun-19 08:11:27

But maybe you ought to have ‘gone through the rigmarole’ EV then, more than likely, you’d be there now. But if you have family here too (?) perhaps, deep down, you were torn and that swayed you not to try?

Oldwoman70 Thu 27-Jun-19 08:22:22

paddyann the points system would not stop "nurses, doctors and health care workers" coming to UK as those would be the skills we would need, it would limit those who have nothing to offer the country.

I have family in Australia, when I was widowed I looked into moving there with them. In order to do so they would have to undertake to sponsor me, I would have to put up a substantial bond to ensure I would not be a burden on the Australian state and have to prove I was not suffering from any serious medical condition. I see no problem with a similar system for UK.

stella1949 Thu 27-Jun-19 08:29:01

Australia also has long waiting periods to claim benefits and Medicare ( NHS), after you become a resident . Between 2 and 4 years depending on which benefit you are claiming.

stella1949 Thu 27-Jun-19 08:34:16

EllenVannin as a remaining relative, your daughter could have sponsored you to live in Australia. You have to go though the normal type of vetting process but it's common for people to sponsor family members to emmigrate. You get permanent residency and are able to claim benefits and Medicare immediately.

Jane10 Thu 27-Jun-19 08:46:39

The Australian system seem quite reasonable and fair. We looked into it at one point. They were looking for people with my skills but not DH's. It was clear, understandable and we accepted the reasoning behind it.
Bring it on.

sodapop Thu 27-Jun-19 08:52:18

I agree with Oldwoman70 & Jane10 It seems like a fair system and something the UK could consider.

suziewoozie Thu 27-Jun-19 09:03:54

I’ve discovered the Migration Observatory ( based at Oxford University) as a good source of information. This link explains our 5 tier system for would be non- EU immigrants.

suziewoozie Thu 27-Jun-19 09:05:40

I’m still looking for an analysis of how the two systems compare taking into account the differences between our two countries. I’d be grateful for any links people have.

suziewoozie Thu 27-Jun-19 09:23:18

This describes our current system and describes it as points based.

suziewoozie Thu 27-Jun-19 09:30:10

The above has an interesting discussion of points based system vs employer led systems - it demonstrates how complex and varied the issues are . Certainly there is no silver bullet regardless of what any politician says.

EllanVannin Thu 27-Jun-19 10:17:54

In the 1980's we were a family of four left after D and Sil emigrated so we did apply to go and were sponsored by D.

We had sufficient funds etc and I actually had a job waiting for me at the Royal North Shore Hospital. We were given a date until after the results of H's medical held us up and he had to have further tests. Then my D here got pregnant, SiL died suddenly and my mum a month later so that put paid to that and so it was on hold.

However my H took ill and was diagnosed with cancer-----so just about everything was against the move. Even though initially after my H had had a shonky x-ray they were prepared to take us as it was nothing contagious, but it wasn't to be.

After another visit when I was widowed and a further GS was born here I still hankered after moving there but the years rolled by and before I knew it it was 2000 and 6 years later my GD was having children.

There is a " family count " that if you're leaving more family from the country you were born in than there are in the country you expect to live in, they're hesitant in allowing you to leave your birth country.

I suppose in a way that I haven't been happy not doing what I'd wanted to do while everyone else was merrily getting on with their lives.

My D's friend's mother moved to Oz when she was in her 80's simply because there were no siblings in this country and the friend had been prepared to look after her mother, as well as having an annexe for her to live independently.

The rules are pretty strict for an English-speaking country which is still part of the Commonwealth-----it doesn't make sense as the country has accepted dozens of immigrants from Syria and beyond. It makes me feel second-class !