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Is the U.K. suffering from a kind of psychosis?

(53 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Sat 29-Jun-19 09:28:57

Loosing touch with reality seems to be a theme particularly amongst some our politicians, and I was struck today listening to the radio how this is, as a result affecting us as a nation in relation to trade.

At the end of last year we as part of a community of nations,
formed an EPA with Japan, which allows the UKs businesses to trade freely with Japan as part of the worlds largest economic area. It had taken years to negotiate this extraordinarily complicated deal, but it now gives our businesses unfettered access to a huge market.

This week after 20 years of highly complicate negotiations the U.K. as part of th e EU will have access to the South American market. This is the biggest trade deal yet negotiated by us as part of the EU, giving our businesses access to 800 million customers.

On 31 October we lose our collective marbles and turn our backs on all that, putting the U.K. in the worst position of the entire world of nations, with zero trade deals and totally out of touch with reality.

Psychosis on a nationwide scale.

jura2 Sat 29-Jun-19 09:31:18

In one word: YES

Urmstongran Sat 29-Jun-19 09:47:14

EU trade negotiations are unwieldy, slow affairs that take an average of seven years and must factor in all of the varying concerns and cultures of all 28 member states.

The European Commission failed to finish US trade talks before president Trump took over, in part because of disagreements over financial services and the ironing-out of all those national difficulties.

Even when a deal is struck, they are subject to approval by all the parliaments of the 28. The Canada trade deal was nearly scuttled by the resistance of the Walloon regional parliament in the French-speaking region of Belgium.

Recent EU trade policy are thanks in part to Brexit.

Since the Brexit vote, and the election of a protectionist Mr Trump, the EU has adopted a more pragmatic rather than absolutist approach and zeroed in on getting deals, even if they aren’t the best possible, done.

EU officials believe, as was clear with the recent trade agreement with Japan, that each deal struck bolsters the international rules for trade at a time when they are being challenged by Mr Trump.

When Britain does leave the EU and pursues its own independent trade policy it will need those rules to be in firm fettle.

Britain alone sacrifices the negotiating heft of a bloc of hundreds of millions of customers but should be more nimble and fast moving than the EU.

As with much in Brexit, it is a question of trade-offs.

trisher Sat 29-Jun-19 09:54:04

Britain alone sacrifices the negotiating heft of a bloc of hundreds of millions of customers but should be more nimble and fast moving than the EU
If any futher proof were needed. Does anyone seriously think that there is some kind of magic spell that will make trade deals magically and quickly appear out of nowhere? The clue is in the name Trade DEALS . A deal is an agreement between 2 or more bodies Blaming the EU for the time things take and imagining it will be quicker because we are Britain is just wishful thinking.
Psychosis indeed!

Urmstongran Sat 29-Jun-19 10:01:17

No. We will only have ourselves to consider, not 27 other member states. We will be more nimble!

trisher Sat 29-Jun-19 10:03:53

You can't make deals with yourself!

GracesGranMK3 Sat 29-Jun-19 10:08:12

You have hit it on the head. I think my country is wonderful but I am also aware of its limitations, just as I am aware that although my children are the best ever, I am aware they are not perfect. In both cases that is why I love them; for their brilliance, their quirkiness and their imperfections.

It should be obvious to all that assuming either were "better" than others is not some form of real love or patriotism it is some form of delusion. Obviously, if I compare my children with others they do better in some ways, but in others, these are not their strengths. The same applies to my country - and most of us can see that. We simply cannot, for instance, magic up the large economy of some nations. What we can and have done is join together to balance that issue. Why would anyone think a smaller economy will do better?

It is a UK wide madness that tells these people they are so right they can risk the lives of others to prove it - and they are.

Urmstongran Sat 29-Jun-19 10:14:47

The Eeyores are out in force today.

quizqueen Sat 29-Jun-19 10:18:40

The fact that these trade deals took so long to negotiate says it all really. However, Liam Fox can replicate or improve on these deals fairly quickly once we are an independent country. Everyone will still want to continue to trade with us, why wouldn't they.

Doesn't it make you wonder why, if the EU wants Free Trade Deals with all these other countries, why doesn't it want one with us then!!!! We already conform to all their regulations and are unlikely to change that many. It's called being really vindictive and trying to make us struggle as a warning to other member states who may want to think about leaving.....and you still want to be partners with this organisation!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whitewavemark2 Sat 29-Jun-19 10:20:01

No ug the realists. We KNOW what we are giving up, we KNOW We are doing to our economic health. We KNOW we are suffering from a collective psychosis.

Urmstongran Sat 29-Jun-19 10:21:57

You are suffering, but I think it’s just pessimism.

paddyann Sat 29-Jun-19 10:24:20

The GDP in Scotland is currently double that of the UK .Sadly our cash goes south and we get pocket money back .
THATS why we want/need to be Independent ,then and only then will we have control of our finances and country.Small nations can and do perform much better in some..not all cases .
There is no reason why Scotland as an Independent nation (again) and as part of a trading union wont prosper .Power devolved is power and finances retained therefore for every tax decision they"allow" us there are many where we have no say whatsoever and in fact can be penalised by WM taking the extra from tax off our pocket money .
Scotland is not in any way inwards looking we are and always have been Internationalists .The UK appear to have a different take ,the new rise in "English Nationalism" AKA Brexit is a narrow outlook a return to the glory days that really were only in fiction .The sovereignty they crave has always been theirs WM IS an English parliament as 85% of MP's are English and have little or no interest in the other nations of the UK as witnessed by the Brexit mess.
he Brexit mess .

jura2 Sat 29-Jun-19 10:24:34

I do wonder- are you naïve?

or ???

jura2 Sat 29-Jun-19 10:25:57

Or deluded, or confused, or ...

EllanVannin Sat 29-Jun-19 10:26:15

Complete insanity !!

Whitewavemark2 Sat 29-Jun-19 10:26:57

Oh dear oh dear qq how are we going to deliver as quickly as you think? The EU DOES want a trade deal with the U.K., but not entirely on the UKs terms. The EU is a massive and powerful block, and if we think we can push it around I’m afraid that is where our collective psychosis is obvious. We are a tiny trading nation compare to al, the various alliances throughout the world.

Why do you think Fox has changed from championing a no deal to insisting that we need a deal? Because he eventually came to understand(it took a while mind you) that the U.K. will be up the proverbial creek if we have no deal.

Every other country in the world is happy to have a partnership of one sort or another with the EU. Why on earth would we not want one?

Urmstongran Sat 29-Jun-19 10:59:21

Happy and optimistic perhaps?

jura2 Sat 29-Jun-19 11:15:26

Always been happy, optimistic, forward thinking, open-minded, young at heart - but this is not the time, for sure.

This historian agrees:

Will you be happy and optimistic when your kids loose their jobs, when the NHS crumbles, when your grandchildren blame you for destroying their future dreams and ambitions?

Whatever happens- I am glad I will be able to look them in the eye and say 'this was not done in my name- and I did everything I could' ...

crystaltipps Sat 29-Jun-19 11:20:57

A deal is another word for a treaty, it takes a long time to negotiate whoever is doing the negotiating because all the legalities . Every country in the world is part of a trading bloc of countries of some kind. So they all have partners to consider. We don’t have any skilled negotiators as proved in the last 3 years of chaos. Those who think because we’re British everyone will be falling over themselves to give us what we want in no time are seriously deluded.

Urmstongran Sat 29-Jun-19 11:57:27

Hyperbolic nonsense jura2 ... Will you be happy and optimistic when your kids loose (sic) their jobs, when the NHS crumbles, when your grandchildren blame you for destroying their future dreams and ambitions?

It’s too hot to be so razzed up.

GracesGranMK3 Sat 29-Jun-19 12:05:15

People who are bipolar are extremely optimistic at times UG. It's called mania and it means the can be a danger to others but more so themselves. They are so "high" and over optimistic at times they develop a psychosis. The symptoms of this are hallucinations, delusions, and paranoia. I see all three in some of the leavers posts.

Urmstongran Sat 29-Jun-19 12:05:52

We didn’t use skilled negotiators last time crystaltipps but they are out there. Mrs Maywas offered the services of a crack negotiator from Oz but she declined. I wonder why?

Boris (and his team) won’t make that mistake.

Money talks.
Deals will get done.
Business always finds a way to trade.

GracesGranMK3 Sat 29-Jun-19 12:06:00

Nearly up to full house on your favourite word UG.

Urmstongran Sat 29-Jun-19 12:07:46

I know a lady who is bipolar.

You are being silly now GracesGran

Urmstongran Sat 29-Jun-19 12:08:42