Lib Dems Leadership

The Remain parties seem to be doing exactly that, POGS, the Libdems and Greens seem to be entering into informal agreements in seats all over the country so as not to split the Remain vote in a GE.

The 'deals' being agreed by Remain Alliance are there for all to see and seem transparent. The deal delivered, giving a voice to those who are anti-brexit.

Surely that indicates that a significant number of Welsh NO voters may have changed their minds and are happy with the stand declared by their new MP. (I apologise that have not examined the balance of yes/no voters in the constituency so may have misinterpreted).
Is this a microcosm, an indication of how Wales as a whole might vote in a 2nd referendum?

Despite the apparent openness of the parties' agreement, Tory party deputy Cleverly refers to them as dirty deals behind closed doors. (Well he would, wouldn't he?)
Ps I use Cleverly not as an adverb but only because it's his name!

Shoequeen

At what expense to their Core Voters/Members.

Plaid Cymru for example are all for Independence. If a General Election took place they could be out of Parliament for 5 years without a voice, unless a ' back room deal ' is done with the Lib Dems but the Lib Dems say they are a Unionist Party. They state there will be no Indepence Referendum in Scotland under their watch, so why Wales.

Of course the 'pact' could be on a ' principle' of equal footing/equal distribution of constituencies between the Lib Dems/Plaid Cymru/Greens but they will ironically have to join a Coalition/Supply and Demand government and they have carped/moaned/voiced against other parties doing the same for years.

Opportunity knocks but something /some one will have to give more than they may bargain for.

The parties which support the majority of UK voters who want to remain in the EU, have, for the sake of the country, to put aside their differences because we are facing a national emergency and it is essential for all good people to do everything they can to stop brexit.

Your last post sums up politics POGS - principles are the first things to go overboard when a storm approaches!

Perhaps those who voted to leave should no have voted "the storm" on the people then Pantglas.

Not, not no.

And there we have it GracesGranMK3.

If all those Tories, Socialists etc had stuck with their political parties’ principles the resulting vote would have gone t’other way....and we wouldn’t have this particular storm, would we!

The thing about storms? there’s always another one on its way!

Completely bemused by your post of 7.20 Pantglas. What does it have to do with anything?

BTW. Tories never seem to have deviated from their principle of 'f*çk the poor'

I was doing GracesGrnMK3 the courtesy of replying to her comment on my previous one MaizieD!

She was correct in suggesting that all those leavers shouldn’t have voted ‘the storm’ on the people. And my point was that if the those Tories/Socialists had stuck to their respective parties directives we wouldn’t have this mess!

Apologies for the convolutions!

I can't see the argument Pantglas. People were not voting on party lines. Why would you expect them to? They were voting as an individual. If a referendum is carried out properly it gives a level of direct democracy.

The level, in this case, was to advise the government (not the parties) of which way we were advising them to go. Those who advised for the storm rather than the safe harbour are the people who have put us in this position. I'm not at all sure how you can imagine that those who advised the safe harbour are to blame for the, so far only choppy waters, we are in and the storm that is expected to come.

The blame will lie at the feet of those who wanted to test sailing in the storm with absolutely no preparation or knowledge of this type of storm, and the politicians who turned the ship of state into it because they were more afraid command would be taken from them than they were concerned for those on board.

GracesGranMK3 - I don’t blame those who advised and those who listened and followed their advice to choose the safe harbour for this mess.

I only wish that those that proclaim themselves staunch Tories/Socialists had done the same, and then we wouldn’t have aforementioned mess.

Look at her voting record says it all.
And she supports fracking

So which party leader would you support?

I addressed the issue of her voting record upthread, Grany, different times, totally different political climate. And fracking will the very least of our troubles if this car crash isn’t stopped.

Trying hard to understand you, Pantglas but I still have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say. Could you start me off by explaining which 'mess' you are referring to?

"People were not voting on party lines. Why would you expect them to? They were voting as an individual."
---

That is a point that has been made time and again but it doesn't stop the ' Smart Asses ' who state they KNOW how parties/ages/even posters voted because they are indoctrinated their opinions/view should be the only ones to hold and others who don't follow their mind set are therefore by default right wing, thick, racists who should accept puerile, verbal abuse.

Hence the usual type of tired old rhetoric used by the same old, same old posters who think they KNOW how we as individuals voted and feel free to name call at every bloody waking opportunity with comments such as :-

" Tories never seem to have deviated from their principle of 'f*çk the poor'".

I would agree that, as a group, a large number do seem to have little understanding or care for the poor. But what has that got to do with anything. It's certainly not surprising as the thinking in a right wing way is predicated on the belief that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable and typically support this position on the basis of natural law, economics, or tradition. This would lead you to think that charity is okay for those who deserve it but that the state should not intervene. Obviously "the right" spread across a spectrum but, with the Conservative Party moving further and further to the right I would agree that the statement above is very often true.

I'm still absolutely none the wiser as to what the 'mess' or 'storm' PG refers to actually is but delighted to see that POGS has decided to add to the confusion. [Grin]

"but delighted to see that POGS has decided to add to the confusion. [Grin]
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Funny that.

I understood everything she said.

Congratulations to the people of Brecon and Radnorshire on changing the colour of their Tory, from blue to yellow x

Well saidGrany there are tories of many colours in Westminster

If the conservatives had chosen a different candidate they would have held the seat.

At least their “Tory” won’t be pressing to crash out of Europe.

If the Conservatives had a different membership Johnson would not be in power. So what Annie?

My mother would have said, If "ifs" and "ands" were pots and pans, there'd be no work for tinkers' hands. Which means your optimism is conditional on something that didn't and won't happen. Or, as my mother would have meant, that's a bit of a waste of thinking.