Hong Kong

Censorship in Hong Kong

medium.com/@KongTsungGan/censorship-in-hong-kong-since-the-umbrella-movement-an-overview-8024fdad68fc

We lived in HK in the 1970s and last visited three years ago.

.One of my friends in HK is a Brit who has lived there for fifty years, but my other friends are HongKong belongers.

They speak good English, Cantonese and Mandarin. They are, I think in a delicate, possibly even a dangerous position and fortunately the messages they sent to us in Christmas cards were innocuous apolitical messages about family, nothing political, and so, I think they passed the Sensors.

I have been careful about e-mailing them and we don't very often phone each other, but I am for the first time quite worried about their safety.

No I haven’t varian, are your friends British? Are you worried about them as individuals?
If so then I shouldn’t think they have to worry. Communication is so good and immediate these days that I am sure the British Government would be ensuring their safety if needed.
If you mean that you fear the problem is escalating then you could be right to be concerned.

Of course I know nothing about it-it’s only my opinion.

May I ask if any other Gransnetters have received Christmas cards or letters from friends in Hong Kong?

We have received several from different friends and we have noticed that all of them have been opened and resealed with sellotape.

Am I right to be worried about this?

Can I just share a really interesting piece from this October about the Hong Kong situation and what it feels like to be there.
I have to say it made me angry with frustration and sadness. It also surprised me with some people's thoughts and attitudes.

www.thisamericanlife.org/686/umbrellas-up

For those of you who don't know it, This American Life is radio from the USA (Chicago?) which looks at really interesting things, often from unusual perspectives. Sometimes it confirms what you know, sometimes it enlightens!
It has a long (and varied) archive.

I wouldn’t worry about a Tianamen Square put down of HK it would have happened by now.
China will get control by slow strangulation, it is far less important in economic terms than 10 yrs ago and will get absorbed into the mainland.

Landslide victory for Hong Kong pro-democracy parties in de facto protest referendum

Pro-democracy candidates appear to have made major gains in Hong Kong's district council elections, as early results trickled in Monday morning, with multiple high-profile pro-government figures losing their seats.

More than 2.9 million people turned out to vote in Sunday's elections, which have been framed as a de facto referendum on the almost six months of ongoing protests in the semi-autonomous Chinese city. With more than 95% of constituencies declared, pro-democracy candidates appeared to have won a landslide victory.

Speaking to CNN, Kenneth Chan, an expert on politics and governance at Hong Kong Baptist University, said the more than 70% turnout -- higher than any other election in the city's history -- "exceeded many predictions" and demonstrated both Hong Kongers' commitment to democracy and that they are "counting on this election to point a way out of this impasse."

Public broadcaster RTHK described the results as a "rout" and a "staggering victory for the pro-democracy camp," with the majority of the 18 district councils expected to flip to pro-democratic control in an "unmistakable message" to the city's leader Carrie Lam.

Opposition candidates took nearly 90% of the seats up for grabs, the broadcaster reported. After weeks of increasingly violent unrest, this weekend was remarkably calm, following calls for protesters to avoid giving the government any excuse to call off the elections or close polling stations early.
In a statement Monday, the city's leader Carrie Lam said her government "respects the election results."

edition.cnn.com/2019/11/24/asia/hong-kong-district-council-elections-intl/index.html

I fervently hope that there will not be bloodshed, especially as we have many friends in HongKong. We are reticent even about emailing them because the emails are likely to be monitored.

When we lived in HK in the 1970s everyone was well aware that the colonial regime was undemocratic and at some time things would have to change but the prevailing feeling at that time seemed to be a pragmatic acceptance of the fact that democracy might in some ways be a desirable ideal, but security and material progress which could be seen to be happening did go some way towards compensating for the democratic deficit.

All of us, native HongKongers and expats, were very well aware that sooner or later that change would come but it would be essential to maintain the delicate balance between the small, but brilliantly successful enclave of Hong Kong, and the huge growing power of China.

I dare say not many are shocked that China under a dictatorial Communist regime is moving at pace.

Sadly it appears that China under it's dictatorial Communist government is not conforming to :-

' The Sino-British Joint Declaration and was registered by the People's Republic of China and United Kingdom governments at the United Nations on 12 June 1985 which states:-

' In accordance with the "One country, two systems" principle agreed between the United Kingdom and the People's Republic of China, the socialist system of the People's Republic of China would not be practised in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), and Hong Kong's previous capitalist and its way of life would remain unchanged for a period of 50 years. This would have left Hong Kong unchanged until 2047.'

The truth is far from being ' as some ' like to keep mentioning living under the colonist travesty of British Rule the Hong Kong people were safe, successful under the 'Capitalist way of life ' and they should expect China to abide by it's signatory to the Sino British Joint Declaration and the Chinese ' Socialist System of the People's Republic of China' would not take interfere until 2047.

It is only kicking the can down the road but what future do these protesters have? What do they have to lose if they are being subjected to the dictatorial Communist regime decades earlier than they rightly expected?

They are a feared population and the dominance of China is too difficul for the British Government and United Nations to do bugger all about accept use rhetoric and China knows it holds the power and it will be relentless at some stage in quelling the protests and God help those who have no control over a dictatorial Communist Regime, as we see in other countries.

I fear bloodshed is inevitable at some stage and we should hold tight to our way of governance here in the UK. We might not like it, we may not agree with it all the time but Hells Bells who would want to live under a dictatorial Communist Government?

Hong Kong is not and never has been independent RosieLeah, nor has it ever had any real democracy, either as a UK colony or as part of China since 1997.

When Hong Kong became independent, it must have been obvious what was going to happen. Why is the world so shocked?

I one hundred percent agree with your above post Davidhs. The protesters are now giving every excuse to the Chinese mainland authorities to move into Hong Kong and take full control.

Should the above take place, then it will not end well for the protesters or the entire population of Hong Kong I feel.

Remember Tiananmen Square.

China wants control of HK, if not now, next month or next year, it will happen, The student protesters are giving China an excuse to intervene, HK is not an independent state it is an economic area within China and nobody is going to come to its aid.
Let’s hope there is no bloodshed but if China does take over they will be very heavy handed and many thousands are going to be sent to “ re-education camps” just as dissidents in the mainland are.
Although China is nominally communist the reality is a massive dictatorship headed by Xi and massively rich party members, who have secret police controlling the lives of every person. All the media in China is controlled and we only get information they want us to have.

Meanwhile, there is a similar situation in Kashmir, where there are riots because Delhi wants to impose direct rule. Does anybody care?

It’s frightening, I feel so sad, poor HK

It's getting really bad now isn't it.

Worrying about those young student protestors.

Thank you POGS! I think that clarifys the position perfectly. As you say Britain was NOT the only country to have colonies, but to hear some people you would think this was the case! Presumably these same people disapprove of the Commonwealth of our onetime colonies!! France still has them, but apparently that is ok, only the wicked British are guilty!
The Chinese treatment of their Muslim population is very alarming. Not our business of course?!!! (But the American
treatment of migrants is!!) No wonder the people of HK are fearful to the point of desperation, and yes, we, and the UN (as if?!!) should very worried and make this very clear to China.

Thank you for posting that, POGS.

So many British people have such close links with Hong Kong and I think some posters fail to realise that it is not just another place on the world map, nor just 'a relic of the British Empire'.

Thank you Pogs

Happy to be corrected on any details I have made by the way.

Grandad

'Britain no longer any responsibility for Hong Kong. That responsibility is now in the hands of the Hong Kong legislating Authority and the Chinese Government.

The UK government should stay out of that dispute and stop treating those Chinese authorities in terms similar to them being subjects of Imperialist Britain at its height.'
-

The fact the British held a 99 year lease signed with the Qing Empire ( Convention for the Extension of Hong Kong Territory), which as we know ended in 1997, lead to the' 'Handover ' of power to Cina but in 1985 the British Government and China had signed ' The Sino-British Joint Declaration and was registered by the People's Republic of China and United Kingdom governments at the United Nations on 12 June 1985 which states:-

' In accordance with the "One country, two systems" principle agreed between the United Kingdom and the People's Republic of China, the socialist system of the People's Republic of China would not be practised in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), and Hong Kong's previous capitalist and its way of life would remain unchanged for a period of 50 years. This would have left Hong Kong unchanged until 2047.'

The Joint Declaration provided that these basic policies should be stipulated in the Hong Kong Basic Law'
---

So it is felt by many that the British Government as Co Signees of the ' The Sino-British Joint Declaration' do have a responsibility for Hong Kong, as do the United Nations upto 2047. At least to speak out on behalf of the Hong Kong people to whom we had negotiated the deal with China. China should be the ones to uphold their end of the deal under ' The Sino-British Joint Declaration' as the British Government have.

As for the continual point made re the British Colonial Empire / Imperialism and Hong Kong there is hardly ever recognition that Hong Kong was in indeed ' leased out' to the British Government but the Qing Empire ' leased out' it's territories to many countries around the same period the British Government ' leased.' Hong Kong.

A lot of people continually use the ' leasing' of Hong Kong as a perverbial batton to beat the British Government over the head with in their constant indignation that the British were and ' still are' to date Imperialistic Swine and only the British are to blaim for all the ills of the world and colonised overseas territories.

The point I was making janeainsworth and Calliestemon was in response to Anja’s comment that HK had been a democracy - it never has been. In response to what might have been done differently , we’ll never know of course and as with all colonies, there were a range of vested interests amongst the colonisers, the more powerful of the colonised and the vast majority who had no real say in what happened to them and were exploited to a greater or lesser extent benignly or otherwise ( that last sentence is not specific to HK).

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_development_in_Hong_Kong

Here is a very long article about the history of democracy in Hongkong.

It makes clear that any attempts to enfranchise the people in a way we would recognise would have had the PLA across the border in no time. That was the last thing anyone wanted.

The Colonial Government though acted as a benign dictatorship, at least when we were there from 1974 to 1984.

What happened was that someone would write an indignant letter to the South China Morning Post. If enough other people chimed in in support, the Givernment would change it’s mind about whatever they had been objecting to.

Anja HK has never been a democracy in any way that we would recognise under British rule. Any moves in that direction were too little and too late as the end of the lease loomed
suziewoozie I think that attempts by the British to bring democracy to Hong Kong were thwarted for many years, at least since the 1950s, presumably China playing 'the long game'.

EllanVannin Iraq was a totally different situation and a red herring, although I agree with you about interfering there.

It's interesting that Macau does not seem to be having problems - did they negotiate the same type of agreement in 1999? It is certainly one of the richest regions in the world now, due to gambling and tourism.