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Scotland to prioritise Scottish medical students over RUK students.

(27 Posts)
SueDonim Tue 02-Jul-19 14:27:06

The Scottish government has issued plans to prioritise Scottish medical students over RUK (rest of U.K.) students in order to boost the number of doctors in the Scottish NHS. Applicants from the EU will be unaffected.

Sensible or discriminatory?

POGS Tue 02-Jul-19 15:37:52

Both sensible and discriminatory.

However I would like to hear the SNP agrguement if the other 3 nations in the UK said they were prioritising there own population and Scotland was at the back of the queue.
It would be another reason to hate the Westminster Parliament.

paddyann Tue 02-Jul-19 15:45:59

POGS Scotland is ALWAYS at the back of the queue when westminster is concerned/involved .Nothing new there .I haven't read the reasoning but maybe its just to attempt to keep the young medics we've trained HERE

.I know the OP talks about moving back south when her child is qualified .I dont know if thats whats happening with a lot of the English families who have come here or if she is unique .IF the family lives here the chances are the students will settle here too .We NEED to replace the staff we're losing with Brexit .

Jane10 Tue 02-Jul-19 15:54:44

There always seemed to be remarkably few Scottish medical students on placement with us. We once had two at the same time and I remember the incredulity expressed by the consultant at the time!

Jane10 Tue 02-Jul-19 15:56:35

Most of our medical students seemed to be from England or outwith EU for some reason. Many Indian, Pakistani and Malaysian medical students.

vena11 Tue 02-Jul-19 16:43:25

Scotland is not at the back of the queue with a lot of things. I am Scottish and now live in England and have seen both sides of the coin.

vena11 Tue 02-Jul-19 16:46:45

It is discriminatory.

eazybee Tue 02-Jul-19 16:49:06

Discriminatory, but unsurprising.
Prejudice; bias? Perish the thought.

SueDonim Tue 02-Jul-19 20:24:09

It's unlikely I will move south of the border unless I win the lottery, Paddyann partly because it's too expensive and partly because I have my aged mother and another child here. My student medic daughter is the one who is looking to move south.

Maybe the Scottish govt needs to look at why they can't retain the medics they do train. What's luring them away? Why are only 50% of Scottish-trained medics still working in the NHS four years after qualifying?

maddyone Tue 02-Jul-19 20:57:33

I’ve never understood why Scotland is allowed to offer free university education to EU students but not English students. I thought all EU countries are supposed to treat all other citizens from other EU countries in exactly the same way as they treat themselves. Clearly Scotland is abiding by that in offering free university education to other EU students, but English students are part of the EU, at the moment anyway and have been ever since Scotland made free university education available to Scottish students, something I agree with anyway.
With regard to the OP, I would have thought that free education would have been enough to encourage Scottish students to apply to Scottish universities. Does this mean that Scotland intends to lower its admission criteria in order to fill more places with Scottish students?

maddyone Tue 02-Jul-19 21:01:21

BTW Scotland is not at the back of the queue where Westminster is concerned. Scotland receives more money per head of population than England does, and has more MPs in Westminster per head of population than England does. How exactly is that at the back of the queue?

SueDonim Tue 02-Jul-19 21:15:52

Maddyone there are plenty of would-be medics in Scotland but the number of places have been capped for Scottish/EU students, so there aren't enough places. That's not just for medicine, it is the same for other courses and Scottish students have been denied a place at university while RUK have got a place because they have to pay fees. Places have had to be capped because the Scottish govt can only afford to pay so many sets of fees.

The reason Scotland is able to charge RUK students for fees is because England, Wales and Ireland and not separate countries in the EU. It is the UK that is (currently!) a member of the EU, not the four constituent 'regions' of the UK.

Regarding Westminster, Gordon Brown held some pretty influential posts in the U.K. government!

Kapitan Tue 02-Jul-19 21:55:25

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Jane10 Tue 02-Jul-19 22:02:56

I am not a fan if SNP but I strongly object to the previous post by Kapitan. Unpleasant and uncalled for. angry

SueDonim Tue 02-Jul-19 22:13:02

Crumbs, Kapitan. hmm I'm no lover of the SNP but that's a low blow.

maddyone Tue 02-Jul-19 22:44:21

Well now Sue, it's perfectly moral and acceptable to offer free university education to students from France, Germany, Holland, Poland, etc etc BUT to charge students from England, Wales, and Northern Ireland!! It's morally disgusting and buys in to the built in dislike many (but not all) Scots feel for all things English.

SueDonim Wed 03-Jul-19 00:21:33

You're probably correct in that, Maddyone. The rules allow it, though, so there we are. I imagine the Scots govt would say that RUK students are not disadvantaged by having to pay fees because they'd be paying them anyway in England. The govt will also say that Scotland makes its own budget choices on what it spends money on and chose fees as opposed to using it for infrastructure.

Not having fees is having a bad effect on Scottish universities, it should be noted. They don't have any money with which to expand their services because they can't raise any extra income. They can only get extra fees from overseas or RUK students. I can see the day coming when some sort of fees will have to be introduced in order to finance higher education.

FarNorth Wed 03-Jul-19 02:21:45

Not having fees is having a bad effect on Scottish universities

Surely they do get fees from students being funded by the Scottish government and from overseas students who have to pay?

As for payment being required from English students and not Scottish, is it not because there are different funding bodies which make awards (or not) based on country of domicile, the English body not making awards for university study?

vena11 Wed 03-Jul-19 06:56:31

Scotland does get more per head than England but they still complain they are hard done by.

SueDonim Wed 03-Jul-19 13:41:19

Yes, the universities do get fees from the Scots govt but the number is capped and I doubt the govt pays £9000pa. The universities can only raise more money from funded research projects and overseas/RUK students.

You do need to be resident in Scotland for at least three years to get your fees paid.

FarNorth Wed 03-Jul-19 14:47:52

It appears that the fee paid for Scottish & EU students is £1,820 per year.

How that figure was arrived at, and agreed upon with the universities, would be interesting to know.
Likewise the figure of £9,000 for rUK students.

SueDonim Wed 03-Jul-19 18:18:21

Less than £2000pa? No wonder Scottish universities are struggling for funds. One of my dc did have to pay university fees, nearly 20 years ago. From memory, that was about £1800 and he got a bursary or something to cover it.

PamelaJ1 Wed 03-Jul-19 19:46:41

No wonder Scottish universities favour RUK and overseas students. Too many Scots and it sounds as though it would be difficult to provide the education required.
If they have to redress the balance will they struggle to finance everything they need to?

SueDonim Wed 03-Jul-19 19:58:52

I've no idea, PamelaJ1. I suppose if they can retain more doctors in Scotland that will pay for itself.

On a different note, I'm glad to see Kapitan's post has been deleted.

FarNorth Thu 04-Jul-19 10:18:01

A piece of info I came across, is that medicine is different from other courses in that its total student numbers are limited.
Thus an increase in Scots students means a decrease in those from elsewhere.
That is not the case for (most?) other courses.