The people who have everything also run everything.

??

Can somebody explain to me why is a wealthy Tory MP different to a wealthy Labour MP?

Why is an educated Tory MP different to a well educated Labour MP.

Apart from class warfare I see nothing wrong in Parliament being a mixture of backgrounds .

This is the 21st century and Parliament reflects that from MP's serving ' both ' sides of the House .

If only, gillybob !

A line from one of my favourite songs....Humble and Kind by Tim McGraw

.....When you get where your going, don’t forget to turn back around.

Help the next one in line and always stay humble and kind.

Eloethan, my sentiments too though I was shot down in flames.

Those "first class brains" in the Conservative cabinet don't seem to be able to apply their alleged superior intelligence to sorting out the Brexit mess, which their party instigated, or protecting our most valued services.

Indeed, they have been very proficient in creating and encouraging division, discontent and a general feeling of economic and social malaise. Well done, you clever people!

Universities are very tempted by privilege though, because it brings in the cash. In effect parents buy their child’s privileges, even at degree level.

If I was a university I would always give first consideration to an applicant who had not been spoon fed from the start of his education, whose ability alone had allowed him to achieve the sort of results he needed to read at degree level the subject of choice.

But it simply doesn’t end there although it is a good start, but a child from a privileged background will have many contacts and keys to doors that ensures employment in positions of power etc. Something that is not nearly so easy for those of a less privileged background.

But I suspect - particularly judging by the examples we have recently seen, that individuals from such privileged backgrounds are mediocre to put it kindly. Those who have achieved by their own steam will be so much more to give and the savvy to achieve it.

There are many who succeed well in life, even though they have been brought up in poor housing or having been educated in the worst schools.

However, that often involves gaining qualifications by way of life long adult education, which can be an extreme struggle when working long hours and while raising a family.

Those born into wealth and privilege do not have the above problems and therefore, education in the best schools and universities can easily be obtained. Such persons also have the advantage of meeting others of similar privilege, and high confidence can be gained through that.

Therefore I believe that anyone can succeed in Britain, but it is much easier if wealth and good education are provided from the first start in life.

However, I believe that the first of the above two groups always make the optimum of their success, and that is then to the benefit of all.

A friend, who had a 'privileged education' unlike DH and me, observed that a result of it was confidence in oneself and in the way one presents oneself to the world.

Yet many people did and do study although their stomach is rumbling. People in the public eye who have made it in the world are always telling everyone how deprived their childhoods were, yet they succeeded.

Many of those now in what are called 'the middle classes' have/had parents or grandparents who worked in manual jobs in factories, the railways, labouring etc etc.

Mine and my DH's experience is of families, some of whom were disadvantaged, where money was close to non-existent and not eating a real and present threat and others just worked in factories yet moved themselves up the social scale by taking every opportunity that came within a mile of them, being very good at their work so that promotion came there way and encouraged their children to do well at school and to stay in education as long as they can.

Ignoring all the evidence that shows that social mobility is and always has been there for those who are bright, work hard and find their own opportunities, doesn't make it less true. It fluctuates from time to time and recent governments of both hues have done their best to reduce it, but still people get through. This is not a black and white issue as so many want, but like most things comes in many shades of grey

Day6 first comment resonated with me. DH and I both worked for millionaires (different companies) and without doubt they were the most generous employers we ever had. Not just to us but in terms of giving to charity/sponsorship etc.

In contrast, I also worked in the public sector with strong socialist bosses and colleagues who were the meanest most hypocritical people you could wish to meet. They talked a very good talk but rarely walked the walk.

Guess who I think should be running things.....

austerity is to blame in the example given by MM.

Apart from the fact that it is cruel not to care for people, it makes terrible economic sense. The problems which could have been prevented early on, reappear later and cost millions in interventions.

And most do, Day6, and we should all applaud them. But I'm saying we should give that hand up (and it was you who mentioned it) to those who need it. What did you have in mind by that, if not the sort of basic help that Sure Start was providing?

What sense is there in letting them sink?

But first and foremost isn't it a parent's duty to do their best for their children, to want the best for them, no matter what their circumstances?

You are saying the state should provide the encouragement, the workers to 'nurture' such children.

I totally agree that we encourage and make it easier to achieve but by the same token you are saying austerity measures (budgeting by any other name) is to blame for children not taking their opportunities.

Going to school is not an 'obstacle', not in this day and age.

The buck has to stop somewhere. For some people it's at the door of Number ten instead of in the parent's domain.

You can still do your best, even if poor. It does cloud other areas of life, but not to the extent that you do not want the best for your family. I applaud hard-up parents everywhere who strive to make their children's lives the best they can be.

^Are you saying some parents don't encourage their children?

Or some parents have no interest in education or don't value education?

You are talking about a vicious circle really whereby nurture matters but doesn't happen maybe?^

I'd say yes, yes and yes. For many reasons - their own background, health issues, where they come from, perhaps they've just escaped a war zone with nothing and have other more pressing priorities. And however much we might want to castigate the parents for their lack of interest, if we feel it's justified, does it make sense, or is it common humanity, to let the children suffer?

A hand up is precisely what the Sure Start initiative was offering, and it's been withdrawn. Surely it makes sense in every way imaginable to try and tackle poor parenting, rather than let the vicious circle continue? If we do that we certainly are writing off human potential.

I am part of a national survey which has interviewed and studied us from birth in order to create a true picture of life in the UK across the generations. There are volumes of reports and reams of data but I have copied this little snippet on social mobility for interest.

a child born into a poor family in the UK has a very slim chance of succeeding in the education system, for many reasons associated with poverty

That's almost as if we are writing off human potential because of the 'sins of the fathers'.

I remember my politically active friend lecturing me in the 70s regarding my 'station in life'. We were as poor as they come. But I worked hard at school. Mum took us to the library to borrow books, which we read. We had very little but encouragement.

He said "Just because your father cycles to work and wears a flat cap, you don't have to."

Are you saying some parents don't encourage their children?

Or some parents have no interest in education or don't value education?

You are talking about a vicious circle really whereby nurture matters but doesn't happen maybe?

A poor parent is not necessarily a crap parent. Some people do not seize their opportunities - the obvious one being education, because their parents didn't bother?

Don't Oscar's words apply here? They did for us.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." – Oscar Wilde.

Or are we excusing poor parenting because there isn't much money in the household? I'd say that is the very worst type of support. A hand up is what's needed, not an excuse to lie back and do as little as possible because of 'circumstances' Yes, it is depressing having to scrimp and scrape, but it's by no means a unique situation and one that has to endure, for generations.

Of course some are going to be better off than others and total equality is not possible. What is unhealthy in our society is the fact some are grossly disadvantaged, and however hard they work will never lift themselves out of poverty, and others through accident of birth will acquire huge unearned wealth. It is a fact that a child born into a poor family in the UK has a very slim chance of succeeding in the education system, for many reasons associated with poverty, and this is measurable as early as 3 and 5 years of age. Are they all thick?? Education opens the door to social mobility.

I agree with Day6's post there.

Can't agree with that humpty. Why should the money my husband worked hard to earn and to save, go to the children of less hardworking people? We all pay our taxes.

Yes Humpty ???

My daughters,at the age of 11, had the chance to join a European school in England. Some of the lessons were taught in French only. They coped. Even the one who had had no French lessons at all. Kids can be amazing.

humpty ????

Surely we as civilized human beings should be trying to promote equality of opportunity and showing compassion

But we do. The UK is by and large and enlightened society. Equal opportunities legislation is alive and kicking here.

Most people are compassionate. Most people care. We have a welfare state.

What we don't have and never have had is people being born into equally wealthy circumstances.

It does not matter how long we discuss the issue, we cannot make the poor rich or the rich poor, by force or by law, unless we lived in some sort of draconian, communist hell.

The best we have got is the recognition that some people get more advantages in life by dint of birth. It's called life.

It means we try to make things fairer, but we can only do so much.

Most people without a privileged background get on in life by working hard both at school and in the workplace. It may not make them rich, and life may always be a struggle, but it is likely to raise their standard of living and maybe, their self-esteem. Life isn't easy for most people.