The people who have everything also run everything.

That’s the trouble with being a blind supporter of any party,
You fail to see the good things being brought in by the other one.
Both political parties have brought about some good policies to improve lives of the ‘average’ person.

Going back to the early post I see Day6 (Fri 05-Jul-19 14:15:51) has stuck with her usual far-right views.

The haves and have-nots have always existed. What's new?
Are we saying we should somehow cull the bright, rich, privileged and get them all wearing hoodies and using food banks?

You may not believe that "God made them, high or lowly, And ordered their estate." but those farthest to the right will always tell you that this is how it is, and how it has always been; as if the human race cannot develop. The farthest to the right, of course, will accept slavery as being the natural course of things. They will also express views about everyone having the capacity to improve themselves and see the fault of the poor and destitute for being poor and destitute as their own.

It is also a far-right and far-left view that the world is full of tribes. It is those farthest right and farthest left that have voted to cut us off to make us small again in an attempt to enable their tribe to have power. The UK hasn't, as far as I can see, ever had such extremes in my lifetime.

Is this because of the recent rise of liberalism in the world? At least in the western world. The days of the old powers of farthest right and farthest left are dying and this may be one last throw of the dice for each to try and return to them. The farther right (not the farthest yet) have the power and they have grabbed it through their accumulated wealth. The farther left (not the farthest yet) is trying to grab back the power by using and taking to themselves the power of people to use the state.

Is this all because of the changes in tribes or classes? The working class, the middle class, the upper class gave people such comfort. The knew where they belonged and didn't have to berate themselves if they couldn't get to the very top of the tree, they could be a success within their class.

We now have the cognisant and the none cognisant class and knowledge and ability to learn may be what we need for the future. The right, with their accumulated wealth (little or nothing to do with what people earn), tried to buy into this. The left insisted the state provided this. But neither has succeeded in keeping the reverence of this group, as the cognisant class tends to be more volatile, less attached to one group.

And they tend to be more liberal. This means they accept people who are different, are not tribal. They believe everyone is equal however they differ from themselves. They oppose attitudes which oppress others interests not just their own. They find and defend boundaries where, without the law, one group can oppress another. The law is most important to the liberal view. And we have seen nothing but flouting of laws in recent times.

From the Guardian article:
the gene puddle from which the elite siphons its ranks has become shallow and fetid

Whatever someone may believe about perceived inequalities, that is an appalling thing to say about anyone's background.

Grandad 6-Jul 16:53
You have made some very interesting points.
Even some from a supportive background may fail to thrive in school - often the entrepreneurial type of personality, although these days schools are far more encouraging of this. These people, if encouraged and helped through further learning, may become the innovators and business people of the future, employing others, both highly qualified and less so.

Of course, if as a result they become wealthy themselves, they will be damned by such as the Guardian and those with envy, however much they may give back to society in the form of taxes and charitable works.

Dampened with faint praise I would call that Grandad. [Grin]

Wretched thing. Damned not dampened!!! Although, when I think about it, our spirits may be dampen by such hauteur.

Of course, if as a result they become wealthy themselves, they will be damned by such as the Guardian and those with envy,

What a stupid remark, Callistomen. The mildly left of centre Guardian champions fairness and equality; questioning the need for a tiny percentage of the UK population (indeed, of the world population) to keep the greater part of the country's (or the world's) resources for themselves. They're not, as in the wilder imaginings of the comfortable middle classes, calling for a communist style levelling (with, of course, a very comfortable elite) to make everyone poor; they just believe that the world's resources should be more equably shared so that everyone has a reasonable standard of living.

however much they may give back to society in the form of taxes and charitable works.

I'm afraid that noblesse oblige doesn't really hack it in this day and age.

Whatever someone may believe about perceived inequalities, that is an appalling thing to say about anyone's background.

Oh, I don't know. Having today read about the antics of the Bullingdon Club in the 1980s (our current contender for PM, and the one that pitchforked us into the current mess, being members in that period) I think that 'gene puddle' is a most appropriate description.

One incident she recalled at Magdalen College involved “a large galleried room that had just been refurbished with expensive wood panelling. Every piece of furniture that could have been broken was broken, every liquid sprayed around the room, the panelling was cracked, and everything was piled in a heap in the middle of the room. The college door to Magdalen was smashed to pieces.

“I remember the clerk of works looking at the mess in complete dismay. The college had spent a great deal on the refurbishment. All the students who heard this late-night destruction were terrified, I remember.”

Bullingdon members “found it amusing if people were intimidated or frightened by their behaviour. I remember them walking down a street in Oxford in their tails, chanting ‘Buller, Buller’ and smashing bottles along the way, just to cow people.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/07/oxford-bullingdon-club-boris-johnson-sexism-violence-bullying-culture

Now, if the remark about the gene pool was made about those who go round stabbing fellow Londoners, blaming their bacground, I presume you would be very angry MD

Always so predictable

Entrepreneurs who strive and build businesses giving employment to others can't win, then, even if they pay their taxes in full and help others by wirking hard for charity too.

I never knew that paying your due taxes was called noblesse oblige that's a new one!

If the Guardian is only mildly left of centre why are they employing Gary Younge?

He's hardly mildly left of centre.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Whatever someone may believe about perceived inequalities, that is an appalling thing to say about anyone's background

Indeed Callistemon.

The level far-left wing columnists will sink in their politics of nasty hatred is appalling. Dim-witted Antifa idiots/fascists and the like read this sort of leftist hateful bile regarding anyone not obviously working class and act on it.

The mildly left of centre Guardian champions fairness and equality

Oh where is the 'extreme mirth' emoji when we need one..

Hilarious!

Someone always makes other places than Gransnet more attractive. Thank you for the reminder Day 6.

If I am far right love

how patronising

Your posts GGM3 are a ghastly reminder to most I should think.

Callistemon agree with your post.

As a family business, private limited company we pay our taxes.

We as a family participate/contribute to local charities. Noblesse oblige??

Gary Younge mildly left of centre ! ?

The words ‘Noblesse oblige’ used as an insult says much about the speaker. I prefer the words ‘Giving something back’ and so would most folks with no political axe to grind recognising generosity from wherever it comes.

I just thought it was an interesting read.

Absolutely Pantglas1 ??

Someone always makes other places than Gransnet more attractive. Thank you for the reminder Day 6.

I thought that other forums were supposedly far feistier than GN? Or so other posters have led me to believe.

I just thought it was an interesting read.
It is Lessismore but it's good to read, digest and then form conclusions based on more than the information contained in a piece of journalism.

such as?

such as what?

Such as whenever reading a piece of journalism in any publication.

I failed to find anything I disagreed with.