Who represents the real Tory Party?

I remember the posters saying "Labour isn't Working" - queues of unemployed people,

I'm sure we all do, Callistomen. Do we all remember, though, that within a short space of time the 1 million unemployed at the time of that poster had swelled to 3 million under the Thatcher government? Yosser Hughes 'give us a job' and The Boys from the Black Stuff taking advantage of Freedom of Movement to get the jobs in Germany that they couldn't get in Britain. Fiction they might have been but they reflected the state of unemployment under the tories.

The 70s might not have been wonderful for many but the 80s were no better.

I think that the Thatcher government spelled the beginning of the end for One Nation toryism and sowed the seeds of the extraordinary situation we find ourselves in today.

But I like the changes in the Labour Party, they say it'll take us back to the 70's. Bring it on I say, we had full employment, you could buy a house on one persons salary, our schools & hospitals were great.
It was a different Great Britain to the one I inhabited, the n, spabbygirl!
I remember the posters saying "Labour isn't Working" - queues of unemployed people, inflation at 30% resulting in a bail-out from the IMF, the Winter of Discontent and the Prime Minister himself saying:
Even Callaghan himself seemed to have little faith in his native land. "Our place in the world is shrinking: our economic comparisons grow worse, long-term political influence depends on economic strength - and that is running out," he told his colleagues in November 1974. "If I were a young man, I should emigrate."

which all resulted in a victory for Margaret Thatcher in 1979.

I agree that politics in this country is becoming polarised and until all those in the centre stand together and unite it will continue.

If GN Grandmothers and Grandfathers are a typical cross section of society,

Well, they're not. They're only typical of their age group. Predominately rightwing.

I joined the LP 4or5 years before corbyn, so to with and movement for colonial freedom and anti-apartheid. He was always interested in his own glorification than in contribution to helping the cause, until he was the center of attention. Yes I believe that he was recruited by stazi or kgb, course I have no hard facts, just a strong belief.

As for Bojo, well he never finishes a political job, gave up as our local mp half way through his second term to become London mayor, stopped working as mayor half way through his second term to become an MP after the referendum which he decided to support leave, supporting heart instead of head (maybe his zip had something to do with it as it seems to contributes much of his life.) He becomes foreign Secretary, a post that he used to make our nation a laughing stock....and when that role proved to. Be beyond his capabilities; he decided not to finish that job. AND now it's proposed to let him completely screw up the nation.

Then ofcourse we are faced with Mr Smooth, if you do a deal with him, count your fingures before he leaves. He is the man who took over our nhs with the highest level of patient satisfaction ratings, with over 90% of targets being met AND did what nobody else could do, virtually wrecked it.

So yes even I think it is time to ditch Labour and the conservatives (including those logistics following Farage, another product of a corrupted “public school system” and the corrupted city of London) it is time for a radical change and start to once again care for each other

We have a by election 1st August, Tory, Labour, Libs, Brexit .

I want to vote for the Labour candidate, know him well, he would make a good MP but I cannot vote Labour , have done for 50 years but cannot whilst Corbyn and the far left are in control.

I will really struggle to find someone to vote for in the inevitable forthcoming election. My current Conservative MP is good and stuck by Theresa May but I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Boris. Comrade Corbyn is a complete no-no, the Lib Dem haven’t even got a leader, the Brexit party is a joke and although I voted Green in the Euro elections I couldn’t support some of their policies. Trouble is, if a lot of us just stay at home the first past the post system could see us lumbered with a government of the loony left or long right.

Yes Annie you are right but trouble is I can only think of the good ones in other parties

There are good and bad in every party

I have been thinking long and hard about stereotyping Tories, couldn't think of any and was just about to say so when up popped Anniebach with Ken Clark and yes he does muck up my stereotyping them BUT I will say I think the vast vast majority are idiots and self serving. Overtime over the years that the Tories have got in my heart has sunk, down will go the NHS again, education and social welfare, so I think my thoughts on them are right. Need to go my husband is stood in front of me with a tape measure waiting for me to measure his chest.

Ken Clarke is a conservative

Our FPTP system isn't serving any of us well it seems to me. We voted (well I didn't but the country did) against proportional representation. I do understand that system isn't problem free but the results of the EU election suggest if we had some form of PR our government would be more representative.

Elegran - you made an excellent point about the way in which many party supporters tend to hold only out-dated, stereotypical views regarding the opposition.

It can be seen time and time again in this forum.

The world has moved on. Working classes support the Conservative party and middle classes count themselves as Labour voters.

Both parties need to reflect on the results of the recent EU and local elections, on the opinion polls and Think On

Indeed, Iam64

There is much comment that BOTH major parties have stopped listening to those who traditionally vote for them.
I used to vote Labour, couldn't do it any longer, so looked to the Conservative party who seemed, like Labour, totally oblivious to life as it's lived at street level and the real concerns of the electorate.

If GN Grandmothers and Grandfathers are a typical cross section of society, you can understand why so few support Corbyn and co or A.N Other of the Conservative party.

A lack of trust in self-serving parties and politicians seems to prevail. The two party system of politics, the Conservative /Labour see-saw, may soon be over.

Well said Elegran, I support everything you say. Good posts.

I think the Tories have moved further to the right, their politics is very hard and lacking in compassion at the moment. But I like the changes in the Labour Party, they say it'll take us back to the 70's. Bring it on I say, we had full employment, you could buy a house on one persons salary, our schools & hospitals were great. The newspapers don't want Corbyn in charge cos he'll make them pay their taxes properly so don't believe any of the stuff they say about him.

Would you say that you see people as individuals or as caricatures, Barmeyoldbat ?

Are all Americans obese? Do Bretons all wear berets and ride upright bicycles with strings of onions hung on the handle bars? Do all Russians stomp around with snow on their boots, carrying umbrellas with sharp tips dipped in poison? Did everyone over 50 vote for Brexit (preferably a no-deal version?) Do you believe in strict party politics - everybody in one party has a halo, everybody in another has horns and a forked tail?

Wo represents the real Tory party, I would say a Tory representative is an idiot.

I agree. It is refreshing to see some level headed comments. I have never liked the Tory party buy of course, in the interest of democracy and choice and discernment I want to know about all parties. I do however seek to acknowledge good individuals with integrity so I recognise Norman Tebbut, Dominic Raab and Anne Widdicombe and John Major fit into that category. David Cameron set in the rot through his mealy-mouthed double speak, speaking as if he has just walked off a training course on what to say so as not to upset people and say absolutely nothing using many words.

I agree I won’t be voting for the Labour Party either.
I am so concerned about these two parties they will bring about their own downfall.

Good point, Elegran, we shouldn't be shackled to the two main parties. Furthermore, I have wasted my vote at almost every election in the last 50 years, e.g the other party has been elected, very often on less than 50% of the total vote. It is time to end the two party, adversarial system and move to proportional representation. There are disadvantes (not system is perfect) but:

Advantages of proportional voting systems argue that there are fewer wasted votes, helping smaller parties and making governments more legitimate, that Parliaments are likely to be more sociologically representative and less regionally based than under FPTP, and also that PR can reduce the dominance of an over-mighty executive as more coalitions and negotiations are necessary.

Among the 35 major democracies, proportional representation (PR) systems are by far the most common way to elect legislatures.

At the moment it is mostly used derogatively, Paddyann.

Incidentally, I do notice that some of those who decry party politics are also among those who throw around generalised party insults, too. Pots and kettles?

Ellan Vannin.
How right you are.
Yet to figure out who this present bunch represent.

haven't the conservatives ALWAYS been Tories ? Weren't they Whigs (liberals) and Tories centuries ago? Its not derogatory ...its what they are .

Amagran Do you mean the final paragraph in my post of 07-Jul-19 08:47:28 about semicircles v lines of confrontational rugby centre-forwards?