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Who represents the real Tory Party?

(78 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Sun 07-Jul-19 08:24:53

It will come as no surprise to some that I am not a natural Tory supporter, but I have been giving the Tory party some thought lately and particularly after seeing the Hard Talk programme with John Major, that the Tory party has become unrecognisable over the past 3or 4 years.

Listening to Major I completely recognised the traditional One nation Tory, whose values are bedded in the United Kingdom, family and a sound economy. In fact I felt surprisingly nostalgic. But it seems to me that this party has now been taken over by an ideology that is so far from this as to be unrecognisable.
These ideologues have dragged the party far to the right, and with each small success drags it even further.

So those who are left are having either to troop along in their wake or perhaps stand and make a fight for the party they once knew and loved.

I hope that they find the back bone to say “no more”

lemongrove Sun 07-Jul-19 08:31:39

Lots of similarities with the Labour Party then, as many there feel the same about being taken over by a bunch of Marxists.
Will any find the backbone to say “no more”?!

Perhaps both main parties need to take a good hard look at themselves and start over.

Iam64 Sun 07-Jul-19 08:34:40

The two main parties have both moved to their extremes. It's depressing, dispiriting and can't possibly lead us to a PM who represents the majority in this country.
Both parties need to reflect on the results of the recent EU and local elections, on the opinion polls and Think On.

janeainsworth Sun 07-Jul-19 08:37:34

I agree whitewave.

This article from the New York Times goes some way to explaining how Farage has exploited the economic circumstances of the last 10 - 15 years to undermine to Tory Party & force it further to the right.
I too wish for a resurgence of the One-Nation ideals.

Anniebach Sun 07-Jul-19 08:46:02

Both parties have moved to their extremes .Johnson doesn’t
represent the majority and Corbyn doesn’t represent the majority, This leaves many without a party they can support.

Elegran Sun 07-Jul-19 08:47:28

This is what many of the people I speak to think. They by no means support the extreme right, but they mourn the days when the conservative party (Tory is a term of abuse used by their detractors) values supported family, tradition and a sound economy. Agree or disagree with the details, but they used to have a positive policy. Now it is all negative.

Family has become "those like us", tradition has become retaining the worst, not the best, of history, and the economy means "being economical in our treatment of those with more needs than our own."

There are no statesmen any more among the leaders of any of our parliamentary ideologies. The main policies of both parties seem to be to do anything they can to undermine the other side or to get personal power. No taking a co-operative course using the best for the whole country of the ideals and researches of both sides.

Perhaps the physical architecture of the HofC contributes - all sitting glaring at each other in rows in two opposing phalanxes, no wonder Joe Public gets mown down in the crossfire. They should refurbish it into a semicircle, with them all facing in approximately the same direction.

kittylester Sun 07-Jul-19 09:08:24

Good post Elegran.

EllanVannin Sun 07-Jul-19 09:13:55

Since Mrs T's reign, I don't recognise politics/politicians any more. It's as though a bunch of aliens have landed.
I'm done with the lot of them I'm afraid.

Elegran Sun 07-Jul-19 09:16:11

I am quite serious about the semicircle. The psychological effect of all facing in the same direction might just get them all working in the same direction too, using their various interests, abilities and convictions for the benefit of the whole country.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 07-Jul-19 09:19:33

elegran I take your point. But don’t forget that our parliament has been run like this for centuries, without such a tragedy as what is happening now.

Elegran Sun 07-Jul-19 09:19:38

I thought that was why we elected them to represent us in this cradle of democracy - for their ability to take wise decisions on our behalf.

Elegran Sun 07-Jul-19 09:33:29

Whitewave Our parliament has never been so open to the seductive influences of seeking popularity as though they are starring in a TV reality show.

For centuries those elected to govern the country came from the same strata of society, who were not accustomed to seeking the approval of their tenant farmers when they made decisions about their estates. They just used their experience and their training in estate management to run the larger estate that was the country. That training included a sense of responsibility inculcated from generations of landowners looking after their land and those who lived on it, and keeping it in good heart for the future. They were often biased in their judgement, but they were sincere.

The current generation of MPs are career politicians - a different breed entirely. Their decisions are made with one eye (at least) on the polls at the next election, so they support short-term and sometimes flashily populist policies.

123coco Sun 07-Jul-19 09:38:15

When John Major started banging on about family values he was having an affair with Edwina Curry. And let’s not get started on Johnson’s lack of moral compass. Sense of entitlement is just unbelievable. And the red tops really exaggerate about so called ‘marxism’ in the Labour Party. After austerity has failed so miserably ( and Japan warned not to go down this path as it had failed them miserably) we need some of these policies to try to make this country more equal. That’s what makes a country happy (equality life Scandinavia countries) according to lots of research, not GDP!

Whitewavemark2 Sun 07-Jul-19 09:38:22

Yes elegran but we’ve had universal suffrage for almost a century now, and for the vast majority of that time we had statesmen who put country before politics.

Elegran Sun 07-Jul-19 09:41:58

We've only had television for part of that time, and the internet for a comparatively small proportion of it. The internet in particular has multiplied the importance of mass persuasion.

Saggi Sun 07-Jul-19 09:44:06

“Who represents the real Tory party”...... shouldn’t the question be “who cares”.... the self-serving lot of wannabe’s. They couldnt give a damn about this country’s future.... just the next few years ‘in power’.... and scoring points of each other. Party politics should go the way of the Dodo.

Elegran Sun 07-Jul-19 09:48:21

Family values cover more than "just" fidelity 123coco. There are truth and honesty and fairness, and caring for one another through bad times as well as good, educating youngsters and nursing the old and sick, and planning for the future well-being of all the members.

Elegran Sun 07-Jul-19 09:55:45

You are saying the same thing as Whitewave, Saggi - that the current batch of party leaders are a bunch of """"s, worse than the general run, who at least had policies and attitudes which considered the position of the country as a whole unit, whether you agreed with them or not. That is why a lot of people DO care.

Lets face it, we are stuck with a range of opinions and attitudes in Parliament, because they exist in the country as a whole and MPs in a democracy represent ALL sections of the population, so party politics has some place in Government, What is debilitating to good government is when those party politics over-rule decision-making, and that is what we are getting now.

Dinahmo Sun 07-Jul-19 10:04:36

I agree that family values are more than just fidelity. However, when Tory politicians bang on about them, telling the public to do one thing, whilst doing the other, that is hypocrisy in the extreme.

Grany Sun 07-Jul-19 10:05:16

I agree that the Tory party is unreasonable gone too far yo the right. It all started with Thatcher being egged on by Reagan to privatise verything including our NHS to make things easier for America business to make money. In the end t will be just business running the show for their own benefit no polititions needed.

With Labour their are too many Blairites wanting things to stay as they are no real change career polititions. Then there are those who back Corbyn and thousands joined Labour because of Corbyn and what he stands for (the biggest party membership in whole of Europe) politics of change traditional Labour back to its roots as it was first intended as with the Attlee government who brought in massive changes including NHS.

As it stands the media do not want a Corbyn government so we don't get a fair hearing.

On question time,I happened to see a clip on Twitter, a chap in the audience said.Jeremy Corbyn is Labour his voting record (all for the many) and he has in his 35 years in parliament always been on the right side of history we should give him a chance and stop reading what the papers say. Hear Hear.

JenniferEccles Sun 07-Jul-19 10:16:10

I don’t think both parties have moved to their extremes. Labour of course have but not the Tories.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 07-Jul-19 10:27:25

😄😄😄😄😄

123coco Sun 07-Jul-19 10:47:48

So truth and honesty and stability in your family and your children knowing you are not going to abandon them are not important then. They don’t constitute family values ?? Well I don’t know what does. Your talking about values in society which as the party for the ‘small society ‘ the Tory party can never have .

Amagran Sun 07-Jul-19 10:47:48

Good point in your final paragraph, Elegran.

I agree that it is difficult to support either of the main parties at the moment, and I speak as a lifelong Labour supporter. I will not be voting for them in the foreseeable future. But then, why should we feel shackled by the two main parties? They have taken our support for granted for too long because we have a first past the post electoral system. May be it is time to make another party one of the 'main' parties - and I certainly don't mean the Brexit Party!

Amagran Sun 07-Jul-19 10:50:13

Good points in all your posts, Elegran, but I was particularly referring to your first one.