Who represents the real Tory Party?

Thanks janipat for that clarification. I was abroad last week with intermittent WiFi so missed that point.

Iam64 a thoughtful and thought-provoking post.

Im64 Good post, but contains one inaccuracy, it was not the woman's partner/boyfriend who shot her, but another woman with whom she was arguing about said boyfriend ( father of the baby). The shooter was originally charged but the grand jury decided she was provoked into shooting in self defence ( against an unarmed pregnant woman!) and so the pregnant woman was charged, having been deemed to have caused and prolonged the argument.

Iam and Whitewave, I agree.

Thoughtfully reviewed Iam. Strangely, knowing others feel aware of this makes me feel less "doomed" but as you say, we do indeed live in dangerous times.

iam64 a well thought through and depressing but true post

That's a very long article GGM3 but I've skimmed most of it. I found it a depressing read because it reflects the fears I have about the rise of the right. It's being dressed up as preserving 'our culture' and expecting others to either embrace our culture or go live somewhere were their own culture is the main one.
The support from Trump in the southern states of the US is terrifying. Make America white again is one chant. Like it ever was white, like the original inhabitants didn't have their own culture, now confined to reservations. Like the black American's weren't stolen and shipped there as slaves.

The treatment of women is disgusting. A young woman in Alabama was arrested and charged with causing the death of her unborn baby. She was five months pregnant, shot in the abdomen by her partner, the baby died, she survived. The police said she was responsible because she caused the row with the boyfriend. Fortunately, the DA wouldn't progress the case.

If we end up with Boris as PM (and it will take a miracle imo for Mr *unt to beat him) we must not lose sight of Boris's links to the alt right. He and Farage are both in contact with Steve Bannon, who was a Trump advisor.

I try to keep my feet grounded and not go into 'there's a bomb in the hall Captain Mainwearing" mode but, we are living in dangerous times. We have an inept leader of the LP, even those close to him are beginning to express concerns he's being manipulated by the gang of four around him. I know this isn't a popular view amongst Jeremy's supporters but it's receiving too much coverage from sensible people in the know for it to be simply a conspiracy by the right wing press.
The Conservative party has lost its mind. Cameron led us into a referendum that shouldn't have happened and then disappeared off into the sunset. We all watched the events of the last years unfold in varying degrees of horror, whichever side of the Leave/Remain side we're on, its been a shambles.

I've been involved in the women's movement since I was in my early 20's. I've voted Labour, been an active union member. So always on the left I accept that. I have friends who vote conservative but none who would support the alt right/ukip/Tommy Robinson etc etc. I hesitate to say it but I do begin to feel we're all doomed.

Thanks, UG. It's not for the fainthearted or those without several cups of their favourite brew.

It is all about control and control is happening by the back door, all those who have gone cashless for starters. Tracked via card spends and that is only the beginning. We the public want our freedom back, freedom for the children, freedom so that we don`t have to whisper our thoughts to our friends, in case of being overheard in a public place. Freedom to be full of humour and fun, like we used to be.

The fun has gone

I’ve saved the article to ‘Pocket’ and will read it later today too GracesGranMk3 (it too early for serious stuff just yet I’ve not had my first cuppa yet!).
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I'm glad someone else saw the Dispatches programme. If you can plough through it Iam I would be interested to know what you make of the Article I have linked.

Just playing devil's advocate slightly but what would have happened, I wonder, if we hadn't been part of the war in Iraq?

The Conservative Party has always been many stranded but there does seem to be a rise of what might be called the nativist right. I found this a very uncomfortable article to read: theconversation.com/the-new-right-how-a-frenchman-born-150-years-ago-inspired-the-extreme-nationalism-behind-brexit-and-donald-trump-117277 but have heard similar comments from Tory voters rather on other forums as well as shaded versions of similar thinking on here.

Is this, currently small group, within the Tory party likely to become the face of this party? It could. Small in number they may be but there are so many fault lines within the party that a small group could take power and I notice one name mentioned in the article is a leading light in the ERG, currently running Johnson and his campaign.

Well Anniebach if Boris’ tax plan adjustments go ahead the doctors will be pleased - up to £80k for the new threshold I think, for tax cuts.

They won’t be working overtime ‘for nothing’ for much longer will they?

Hospital doctors are cutting their hours because of tax bills

Yes, you're right about the move towards privatisation Callistemon, plus PFI of course. Though those new hospitals, schools and community centres had to be funded.

I've just watched Dispatches, I haven't caught up with other posts so no doubt there will be posts about Islamaphobia in the Conservative party. It was so very depressing to watch Turning Point UK's growing influence. The admiration for Trump from so many party members was depressing, in fact scary.
We're likely to have Boris as PM. I expect he'll call an early election which on current showing, he'll win and we'll be in for five more awful years where our NHS and public services are sold of to Mr Trump's friends .

Good post, Iam64
However, Blair did also carry on and privatise services, which I thought that New Labour would not.

Not Blair or anyone like him again either - just someone moderate with decency and strength to bring the party together and rid the party of extremists.

If the Labour Party had a leader like Blair Labour would win
the next election.

night owl, I can't imagine any posters here would disagree with you about the illegal war in Iraq. The marches 'not in my name' were fantastically well supported, many wrote to MP's , to Blair etc but to no avail. It's no consolation to those of us who opposed the war to have been proved right. It was based on mistruths, bad information, lies - find your own belief there. It was beyond dreadful and I wish Blair and Bush could have faced a court like The Hague after WW2. They didn't. The war was unforgivable and the region, as well as the war mongers live with the consequences and will do so for as far as we can see.
Blair carries responsibility for that, its indefensible.
However, Sure Start, Family Centres, money into education and health - the LP should shout loud about that. They should also shout loud that it needed to happen because of years of Tory neglect of public services.

I don't think Corbyn is extreme. I imagine when the NHS and state pension was first mooted, the establishment was not exactly over the moon. The Daily Mail's take on it was:

"On Monday morning, you will wake up in a new Britain – in a State which 'takes over' all citizens six months before they are born. The government would oversee each citizen's "birth... schooling, sickness, workless days, widowhood, and retirement."

In my view, it's about time we had a government which returned to the old principles of defying the establishment and its media supporters and bringing in policies that protect our public services and support workers and their families.

Why let a little thing like an illegal war spoil his reputation

Yes, although Blair did make mistakes, Anniebach (we all know what they are) it was better to become a more moderate Labour Party, win elections and introduce some good social policies than lurch to the left and probably have no hope of ever being elected.

Good post Lilyflower ??

And also Annie ?

The 70’s ? Strikes . The 80’s Thatcher . The 90’ ? A strong opposition leader which brought three consecutive general
election wins for Labour.

The far left speak of Blair as if he was Lucifer .

In actual fact, the Conservative party has been moving from the right to the centre ground for years. It was begun deliberately to gain floating voters after Cameron and co saw the success with which Tony Blair hoovered up the electorate for three successive election victories.

Their policies are clearly more like the 'tax and spend' policies of the New Labour centre right than any mandate pursuing traditional Conservative values such as:- small state/low tax, family, prudence, education, responsibility, self reliance, truth and freedom, free trade and opportunity for all.

I cannot blame The Conservatives for having to follow policies to refloat the economy after the last Labour splurge but they have been attacking their own prudent, hardworking, taxpaying, law abiding followers. These are such policies as the hike in Stamp Duty, the continuance of high taxes, the lack of support for the police pursuing crime and criminals, the lack of support for armed forces members being pursued over events under orders which happened forty years ago, the continual PC statements issued by ministers pandering to the 'woke' and PC agenda, the identification with an undemocratic EU and global agenda, the pursuit of sin tax policies, the list goes on. Their record on immigration has been risible.

Whether or not you agree with their policies, there is no question that they are now in intention and deed a centre leftish party.

Personally, I would like a government which took a reasonable amount of tax and spent it prudently on the deserving, which did not gouge the prudent of their savings and self reliance, which minded its own business in the questions of lifestyle and opinions, which allowed free speech, which promoted equality of opportunity and which listened to its voters.

Agree with you well said. MaizieD