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So Brexiteers now want to go out on WTO rules...

(13 Posts)
jura2 Wed 10-Jul-19 12:08:18

which the Director General of the WTO says is absolutely and clearly impossible sad - and to prorogue our own Sovereign Parliament to regain control, in the name of Democracy.

Pure madness. Yes?

Baggs Wed 10-Jul-19 12:59:17

I think some Brexiters have been arguing for leaving the EU "on WTO rules" all along. Just mentioning this because of the reference to "now" in the thread title as if the idea were something new.

Urmstongran Wed 10-Jul-19 13:16:21

Has the ‘Director of the WTO’ told Boris or the Attorney General Geoffrey Cox that doing so is ‘absolutely and clearly impossible’?

Seems a little strange they are considering it then!

Obviously a deal would be better (for both sides let’s remember. I still think negotiators will sort out a deal somehow ... even if it’s at 23:58pm on 31 October!

EllanVannin Wed 10-Jul-19 14:14:13

Oh dear we all know what October 31st is. Pranksters night.

MaizieD Wed 10-Jul-19 14:21:21

Seems a little strange they are considering it then!

Oh, Ug. You do make me laugh.

We (i.e Remainers) have been telling you (Leavers) for a long time that Brexit is a house of cards and a dangerous fantasy. But you have such a touching faith in the fantasists...

Urmstongran Wed 10-Jul-19 14:26:27

Are intelligent people (like say Geoffrey Cox) unaware then that ‘it is a fantasy’??

Or is it doable and the Remainers don’t like the fact that No Deal is back on the table (well, actually it IS the table but YKWIM).

I still think a deal will be struck.


Davidhs Wed 10-Jul-19 15:43:55

It’s strange that the WTO have entered the arena in this way especially as no deal is the least likely outcome, there will have to be a deal. What that is and when it is agreed is a lottery, it’s not going to happen by Oct 31, that’s just bluster.

JC now backing remain (I think) changes a great deal and it might just mean a GE or the serious prospect of it to make enough Tory MPs in marginal seats change their minds

Urmstongran Wed 10-Jul-19 16:06:29

At this rate, not a lot of choice!

News just now in the Graun:
“Ursula von der Leyen, the nominee to lead the European commission, has signalled she will not reopen Brexit talks with the next British prime minister and stressed the “precious” Irish backstop must be defended.

She said she still hoped the UK would remain in the European Union, while indicating she had no intention to renegotiate the withdrawal deal agreed by Theresa May and EU leaders.

“I think it’s a good deal, but it is your responsibility and your noble task to sort this out,” she told a British Liberal Democrat MEP in the European parliament, in her first public comments on Brexit.”

MaizieD Wed 10-Jul-19 18:19:55

Are intelligent people (like say Geoffrey Cox) unaware then that ‘it is a fantasy’??

I should imagine that he's very well aware that it's fantasy (or criminal irresponsibility) but he's putting party before country..

varian Wed 10-Jul-19 20:44:01

Tories always put party before country. David Cameron called the fraudulent referendum in 2016 to try to rescue his party from the swivel-eyed Eurosceptic - that is why the country is in this mess.

Urmstongran Wed 10-Jul-19 20:49:32

But it could just as well be the best thing for this country!!

Dinahmo Wed 10-Jul-19 20:52:51

Many political commentators have been saying for many months that going out on WTO rules will be impossible but the Tory Brexiteers continue to say that it's doable and Joe Public continues to believe them.

varian Mon 15-Jul-19 20:12:07

If you talk to almost anyone overseas, except those at the right-wing extreme (like Trump) or part of a tiny minority of the left, their reaction to Brexit is similar that of the former prime minister of Finland. What the UK is doing is utterly, utterly stupid. An act of self harm with no point, no upside. Sometimes outside opinion is based on incomplete or biased information and should be discounted, but on Brexit it is spot on. So why are so many people in the UK unable to see what outsiders can see quite clearly?

The days when Leavers talked about the sunlit uplands are over. Liam Fox has not even managed to replicate the scores of trade deals the UK will lose when we leave the EU. As for independence, Leavers cannot name any laws imposed on the UK by the EU that they do not like. Since the referendum, even public attitudes to immigration have become much more favourable.

Instead there has emerged one justification for reducing real wages, for allowing our economy to lose over 2 per cent of its GDP, to allow firms to make and enact plans to leave the UK: the 2016 referendum. People voted for it, so it has to be done. It is described as the “will of the people”. Yet few bother to note that almost half the people voted the other way, with those that would be most affected not even having a vote ­– and that this victory was won by illegal means. All of that is brushed aside.

But what is really remarkable is the way that what this vote was originally for has gradually mutated over time. Just before the vote, the Leave campaign talked of many ways of leaving, with Norway (which is in the EEA) as one option. They did this for a simple reason: every time Leavers came up with a feasible way of leaving, other Leavers didn't like it. Yet within little more than a year Leavers were declaring that the vote was obviously to leave both the Customs Union and Single Market. During the referendum campaign the Leave side talked about the great deal they would get from the EU, but within two years, many of the same people were seriously pretending that voters really wanted no deal. A vote for the “easiest” deal in history has become a vote for no deal at all, apparently.

In much the same way, as Alex Andreou notes, what was once described as Project Fear transforms in time into “the people knew they were voting for that”. Claims there will be no short-term hit to living standards made before the referendum have now become “people knew there would be a short-term cost” – remember Rees-Mogg told us that short-term means 50 years.