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Johnson and Brexit

(1001 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Fri 26-Jul-19 08:20:33

In his statement Johnson underlined his pledge to ditch the Irish backstop, and ramp up preparations for no deal, and to leave on 31st October regardless of what happens.

Mays withdrawal agreement has been binned, however in a phone call Juncker signalled the EU27s intention of sticking with the deal already negotiated by the British Government. This includes the backstop.

Juncker told Johnson that the EU would be prepared to alter the political declaration.
Ireland has declared itself as “alarmed”
Barnier signalled that Johnson’s rhetoric almost certainly meant that the U.K. was going into a GE.

Expect a huge public information campaign and a large level of spending in preparation for no deal.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 26-Jul-19 11:44:39

qq 🤔are you sure? I’d be interested in your sources for this information.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 26-Jul-19 11:53:12

There is a very good article in The Economist this week. I have quoted just one paragraph.

At a time of national gloom, the Tories hope that Mr Johnson’s ebullience will be enough to “ping off the guy-ropes of self-doubt”, as he put it in his jokey acceptance speech. We hope they are right. But in reality, his breezy style seems not so much boldly Churchillian as unthinkingly reckless. To get to Downing Street he has made wild promises about Brexit that he cannot possibly keep. His fantastical approach means he is fast heading for no-deal—and therefore a face-off with Parliament, which seems determined to stop that outcome. Britain should get ready for one of the bumpiest governments in its modern history. It could also be the shortest.

For those who can assess it, it is here: www.economist.com/leaders/2019/07/27/to-stop-no-deal-tory-mps-must-be-ready-to-bring-down-boris-johnson

GracesGranMK3 Fri 26-Jul-19 11:56:42

The Economist also has an article on Why Predicting the Impact of Brexit is so hard which concludes:

Brexiteers argue that most economists are too negative—just as they were about the impact of the vote to leave the EU in 2016. Following a chaotic exit, the Bank of England could radically loosen monetary policy, and the government could ramp up spending or slash taxes. Perhaps. But even the gloomiest economic forecasts only paint a partial picture of what could happen following a chaotic exit. Shortages of medicines, violence at the Irish border, shuttered farms and panicky immigrants might not affect the economy much. But there is more to life than GDP.

humptydumpty Fri 26-Jul-19 11:58:48

Well GGMK3, BJ's main attitude seems to be 'let's all be optimistic for a change' - never mind that small and annoying thing called reality.

Joelsnan Fri 26-Jul-19 12:02:18

The Economist has become less realistic and newsworthy than the Beano.

growstuff Fri 26-Jul-19 12:12:36

The ignorance regarding the Irish border is quite astonishing. I wouldn't expect primary school pupils to know much about it, but I thought this was a forum for adults, who have presumably had access to the news over the last 50 years.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 26-Jul-19 12:13:35

I think you sum it up nicely humptydumpty

JenniferEccles Fri 26-Jul-19 12:15:33

How about the empty supermarket shelves leading to mass starvation?

The Economist missed that idiotic scaremongering one didn't it? !

GracesGranMK3 Fri 26-Jul-19 12:16:08

Strangely Joelsnan, I trust their knowledge of these things rather more than I do yours.

Opal Fri 26-Jul-19 12:17:25

MaizieD
Never mind, Sandiiee, just leave it to the clever people to sort out.
You obviously think of yourself as one of the "clever people" MaizieD. Shame your intelligence doesn't stretch to realising that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
I am sick of remainers on here who think they are intellectually superior to leavers.
Sandiiee - you posted a good question regarding the Irish backstop, is there anyone who can give an informed answer without resorting to sarcasm?

growstuff Fri 26-Jul-19 12:23:37

Opal, it really isn't that difficult to Google the situation with Ireland.

Opal Fri 26-Jul-19 12:33:10

growstuff - we can Google anything, I thought this was a forum for discussion and debate. Sandiiee asked a relevant question, she didn't deserve a sarcastic response.

Labaik Fri 26-Jul-19 12:36:15

'Let's just get bloody well on with it!'..and your solution to the Irish border problem is ?

humptydumpty Fri 26-Jul-19 12:36:44

Actuaklky I must admit that I thought Maizie's comment was simply a joke, quoting from Ug's earlier post...

Labaik Fri 26-Jul-19 12:42:28

'Well I’m reassured by the fact that the very first political person he was seen publicly with was that strong woman, Arlene Foster from N.I. She must have given him the green light. Boris is surrounded by very clever people in his cabinet - Geoffrey (Rumpole) Cox for one. ' Oh for heavens sake; she just wants to know how much of a bribe he's prepared to give her this time to keep him in power....[so much for taking back control when the Tories are controlled by the DUP; am I right in thinking they don't have control in their own country #imaybewronghoweverneedto googleit

GracesGranMK3 Fri 26-Jul-19 12:55:51

I must admit "Opal" I was left wondering what Sandiiee thought the 'backstop' comprised and just how she thought Ireland could provide it. Maybe she has it muddled with Trump's wall? People do seem to be making decisions based on emotion when the obviously lack some of the basic knowledge. Personally, I don't care what you are "sick of". Those with little knowledge are not only prepared to change our country to, they believe, suit themselves, but are prepared to take existential decisions which will affect the other half to two thirds of the country.

Davidhs Fri 26-Jul-19 12:56:45

If he cannot get a deal or a “no deal” through parliament he and his cronies believe they can win a GE. Judging by the performance of JC in parliament they are right, most of his reply at question time he appeared to be reading from a script, very uninspiring.

As for the Irish border, there won’t be one, nobody wants it north or south, any controls will be at the Irish Sea ports, there will have to be some, or migrants and contraband will get into mainland Britain

GracesGranMK3 Fri 26-Jul-19 12:57:31

They not the

varian Fri 26-Jul-19 13:04:23

It does seem extraordinary that those who campaigned to "take back control of our borders" now say that our only land border with another country will be uncontrolled!

Opal Fri 26-Jul-19 13:13:10

GGMK3 - Those with little knowledge are not only prepared to change our country to, they believe, suit themselves, but are prepared to take existential decisions which will affect the other half to two thirds of the country.

How do you know what leavers' "level of knowledge" is? Your condescending attitude is sadly typical of some remainers, though not all. And the majority (52%) taking decisions which will affect the minority (48%) is called democracy.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 26-Jul-19 13:27:41

So the contentious issue of the Backstop. Due to come into force in 2020. It is to ensure that the border remains open whatever the outcome of future talks.

This will continue to allow the free movement of goods between the two Ireland’s. Farmers see it as the only proposal that will allow them to continue prosperous trading. Farmers on both sides of the border lobbied extensively for a backstop, as did the haulage industry.

Both the EU and the U.K. have insisted that they don’t want a border. Johnson is of course insisting that there is technology that can deal with the border, but I haven’t seen any evidence anywhere in the world that can do this. We also have to consider illegal immigrants, drugs, illegal substances etc etc.

The EU of course is as we know a single trading entity, so only needs borders between the single trading entity and third countries. We will be a third country, so they will require a border as they do between every other country bordering this single entity.

The EU only works because it sticks to the rules that have been agreed between participating countries. It is a rule based entity. These rules will not be airily dismissed as inconvenient.

Grandad1943 Fri 26-Jul-19 13:28:15

Davidhs Quote [ If he cannot get a deal or a “no deal” through parliament he and his cronies believe they can win a GE. Judging by the performance of JC in parliament they are right, most of his reply at question time he appeared to be reading from a script, very uninspiring. ] End Quote.

Davids, Theresa May believed that Jeremy Corbyn's performance as leader of the Labour Party would give her a landslide victory in the snap General Election she called in 2017.

However, starting from a twenty point plus lead in the opinion polls at the beginning of the election campaign, she went on to lose her overall majority in the House Of Commons.

The above was the start of her troubles with her own Tory Party and the beginning of the end for her as Prime Minister.

If Boris (The Buffoon) Johnson wishes to repeat the above, then "bring it on" many activists in the Labour party will shout, I am sure

jura2 Fri 26-Jul-19 13:32:50

oh come on, Sandiee was the one to first say 'OMG the clever people' - which was sarcastic and rude...

As for the comment on Ireland providing the Back Stop - well, there is NO possible answer to that, is there. It is mind boggling.

Labaik, re Teetime's comment - same question.

Grandad1943 Fri 26-Jul-19 13:43:12

Davidhs Quote [As for the Irish border, there won’t be one, nobody wants it north or south, any controls will be at the Irish Sea ports, there will have to be some, or migrants and contraband will get into mainland Britain] End Quote.

Davidhs, there will have to be controls on the Irish North/South border in the event of a "No Deal" Brexit to prevent goods which do not meet EU standards entering the European Union. The technology to have those control procedures in place without stopping vehicles does not exist at present, and would take several years to bring forward.

As usual, it is all "pie in the sky thinking" by Buffoon Johnson and his rabid Brexiteer Supporters.

jura2 Fri 26-Jul-19 13:43:25

It is absolutely clear that ERG wanted No Deal from the start- due to new EU regs on tax havens - that was the whole point from the start for them. They are currently pretending to ask for a New Deal, with No Backstop- knowing full well it cannot but be rejected by the EU. They are just playing silly pretend games- so they can then pretend to blame the EU for intransigeance. I am amazed this is not clear to all ...

It won't be long - the consensus is out there that Boris and his gang of extremists will very fast be hoisted by their own petards...

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