US Beef

You are still missing the point Rosecarmel - intensive meat production (and dairy, or eggs) increases the risk of infections among the livestock and it has become common to feed prophylactic antibiotics to prevent loss through infection.
Livestock raised organically, low intensity husbandry makes this much, much less likely.
It is a question of responsible husbandry.

People, you are speaking from the position that the UK is pristine when it isn't- And when the environment isn't pristine neither are all living things- No amount of effort can remove from any animal the impact that pollution and farming practices have had on its environment, from the grasses it eats, the air it breathes and water it drinks, all of which are tainted with ammonia and nitrogen and other contaminants-

It's one thing to call US feedlot, mass produced, beef disgusting because it's truth- But to believe that the expensive, locally grown, organic produce and grass fed beef are pure? Well, that's delusion- You can't buy your way out of facts-

You can be health conscious, but not 100% removed from contaminants- And as far as obesity is concerned, it's a crisis in the UK, too- Higher in lower income households than wealthy, but not by much at all-

Good post, Maw- and welcome back (with a name we can all recognise- thanks)

It's not the air, Rosecarmel . Long term, cattle which is fed antibiotics and isn't grass fed is harmful to human health. Antibiotics get into the food chain, which means they are less effective when needed
We are seeing all too well and many of us will have experienced at first hand, the increased resistance to antibiotics. The huge increase in “superbugs” and of deaths from Sepsis bear testimony to that. As does the prevalence of conditions such as Candida Albicans (Candidiasis) which can take hold because the gut has been denuded of healthy bacteria after a/b use. Cutting back on the prescribing of antibiotics except when absolutely necessary is good, but not a complete solution.
If things go on as they are we may be as vulnerable to infections as we were 100 years ago before the discovery of penicillin.

Ahem, Davidhs, glad you've never been my doctor. I developed T2 diabetes and I've never been obese and have always exercised regularly. I do, however, read reams of quality research on the prevalence of diabetes. That's why I wrote that the links haven't been proved, but I personally am not prepared to take the risk that grain-fed beef could make my condition worse. I'm also concerned about the amount of "hidden" high-fructose corn syrup in American manufactured foodstuffs, which adds carbohydrate to the diet.

So many points that need addressing!

Contamination of food. In the US there is a big difference in the way food is produced, hormones, antibiotics, GM, also big differences in environmental, welfare regulation and certainly traceability. However Americans do survive all this, my own observation is that the main problem is obesity.

I too remember when chicken was a luxury, since the 1950s poultry and pigs have been hybridized so that separate bloodlines have been developed for meat and eggs. This enables chickens to convert food much more efficiently and grow faster, and therefore meat much more affordable.

The poultry and pig industries have become integrated, in many cases the farmer is paid a few pence per chicken or pig to manage the unit the supplying company does everything else, including marketing. There is no chance of flooding the market or poor conditions ( in the UK) everything is very strictly controlled.

The general public has no idea of the scale of the industry, the units are often in secluded places with strong security for disease control and because of action by animal rights lunatics.

Diabetes. That is certainly not specific to meat eating, the big risk is obesity, if you eat too much food, take too little exercise, become fat and lazy, you are a prime candidate for diabetes. If you eat a moderate quantity of a good quality mixed diet, diabetes is a very low risk, count your calories for yourself and your loved ones..

It's not the air, rosecarmel. Long term, cattle which is fed antibiotics and isn't grass fed is harmful to human health. Antibiotics get into the food chain, which means they are less effective when needed. There is growing evidence that grain-fed cattle is contributing to rising diabetes rates, although the evidence isn't clear. Personally, I don't want to take the risk.

PS. Varian is right. Chicken was more expensive than beef in the 1950s. It was before chicken-production became production line. The chickens we ate then had almost certainly spent their days free-range and hadn't been pumped full of drugs.

The point is that nowadays there is more meat available (and is relatively cheap), but only because modern techniques have made it so. I'll repeat, if more mass-produced meat (bred in poor conditions) floods the market, people will buy it. The more affluent have the choice to eat meat AND pay the premium for good quality meat. Poorer people don't - their only option is not to eat meat. That's how people ate in the Middle Ages - the rich ate meat; the peasants ate vegetables. So much for progress!

Goodness, if contamination is a factor no food is safe- Pollutants and contaminants are present in even the most remote places- Certainly less is best.. But the animals in the UK breathe the same air as its people, which we all know is hazardous ..

I did not grow up in a poor family and we regularly had meals that did not contain meat. It was just part of a good mixed diet. Nothing special.

I should add that because my parents both worked, we certainly did not consider ourselves poor. We were much better off than many folk.

My goodness Becket, if you grew up in a household which had roast chicken on a Sunday, then used the leftovers on Monday, you are either a lot younger than me, or you grew up in a much richer household than I did in the 1940s and 50s. I only remember having chicken at Christmas.

rosecarmel it makes a lot of difference. Lot bred cattle make a far more environmetally damaging to produce than grassfed or organic. They are fed antibiotics regularly to avoid the spread of infection, which feeds into making many bacteria resistant to anti-biotics and their excrement is contaminated by antibiotic residues, so cannot be used to fertilise land used for grass fed cattle or organic.

I have been particular about what meat I eat for over 30 years because of my concerns about environmental impacts and animal welfare. I already do not eat pork or chicken when eating out unless I know its origin. If we start importing vast quantities of beef from the US that will join the list. Thank heavens Americans do not like, therfore do not breed lamb.

Times have changed. Some of us no longer seem to eat to live but to live to eat. I think we are encouraged to eat whether we are hungry or not. Food outlets have sprung up everywhere and they don't all sell healthy food. Also, most of us are creatures of habit and we like meat. As you say, Beckett, it won't be compulsory to buy imported meat but for many the purse will dictate what kind of meat they buy, provenance will not be the deciding factor.

No, it isn't essential. I eat meat maybe twice or three times a week at most, so I'm well aware of that. You seem to be missing the point. It's all very well virtue signalling about buying local, good quality meat, but that's a luxury for the more affluent. It seems that the plebs can make do on gristle and fat. I'm not suggesting that they should be able to eat sirloin steak every day, but I don't think they should be forced to eat hormone-fed meat, which has been raised in unsanitary conditions, just because it's cheap.

Having grown up in a very poor household I am aware how difficult it is. However, it is not essential to eat meat at every meal, I recall my mother making lots of filling meatless meals. Beef was a rare treat, lamb even rarer. Sunday lunch chicken would be stretched to Monday evening dinner after that it was mostly meat free.

No, it's not compulsory, but (as I've written before), what do poorer people do, when the priority is to feed hungry tummies? Quality is only a choice if you can afford it.

I don't think it will be compulsory to buy imported meat! I know locally raised meat is more expensive so we would end up buying less and as we are being told we should be eating less meat that would not be a bad thing.

crystal

I know, I know???

But we are where we are and we are a meat eating species and as a result we should be as careful as possible in our care of our farmed animals.

You haven’t seen inside an abbatoir if you think the death of animal which wants to live is “humane”.

Thanks for that valuable info Davidhs. I suspect I’m not the only one who would rather eat 6oz of beef from my local award winning butcher than 12oz of beef of unknown provenance.

We MUST support our farmers.

Eat less and pay more.

You will have the satisfaction of knowing that the animal led a life of the highest welfare standard, and the most humane death.

You will value every scrap of the meat you buy and waste will be cut to a minimum.

Ok guys, let’s sum up the differences between UK produced Beef and imported

UK beef is fully traceable, every animal is identified at birth, every veterinary treatment is recorded, every movement from farm to farm is recorded and every producer is inspected by the assured meat authority and if it is a supermarket supply contract inspected by them as well.
It is produced to UK environmental standards, UK welfare standards with the minimum food miles.

All of this costs the producer and processor a great deal, the consumers say they want high standards and that is what is done. Imported beef will be cheaper because it is produced to lower standards, there is no way that UK producers can compete.

In the US there is an organic sector just like here maybe 5% or so, also some reared by traditional methods but the vast majority is fattened in feedlots.

Hormone treated beef, about 25 yrs ago hormone treatment in the UK was banned, it’s effect of treatment was dramatic, you could turn a scrawny cow into prime beef in about 3 months, just like anabolic steroids in body builders.

A final word about grass fed beef ( or sheep) it is probably the most environmentally friendly because the animals are digesting food that cannot be eaten by us, the soil is much better and very few if any chemicals are used, in fact it only needs a small price premium to be organically viable.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I mean beef sold in the U.S. can be labeled product of U.S.even if the beef was imported ..

Monica, I apologize for confusing you with another member-

My point is that the percentage doesn't matter, not now and not after Brexit because the only beef the UK imports from the U.S. is grass fed- You can Google USDA, the site is extensive- If I remember correctly feed lot is high 90s, grass fed 3 or 4 and organic even less -

However .. I was reading that over the course of 10 years, (?) after Brexit, the majority of beef imported to the UK will come from the US-

The confusing part .. Is that I've no idea whose "grass fed" standards will apply .. Because after great effort to determine and define grass fed, those standards were withdrawn in 2016 .. As a result, US grass fed no longer implies 100% grass fed by USDA standard- Meaning they "can" be fed some whole grain and still be labeled grass fed- How much grain wasn't determined- But feed lot cannot be labeled grass fed ..

Further .. US beef can be labeled Product of U.S. even if raised outside of the country ..