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If we leave without a deal what will happen to the supply of food in the UK

(169 Posts)
GracesGranMK3 Mon 05-Aug-19 12:00:39

An article in the Lancet starts "All forms of Brexit are bad for health, but some are worse than others" It looks a four different scenarios . " ... a No-Deal Brexit under which the UK leaves the EU on March 29, 2019, without any formal agreement on the terms of withdrawal; a Withdrawal Agreement, as negotiated between the UK and EU and awaiting (possible) formal agreement, which provides a transition period until the end of December, 2020; the Northern Ireland Protocol's backstop coming into effect after the end of that period; or the Political Declaration on the Future Relationship between the UK and EU."

It tells us that they have found that, although all forms involve negative consequences for the UK's leadership and governance of health, in both Europe and globally, with questions about the ability of parliament and other stakeholders to scrutinise and oversee government actions a No-Deal Brexit is substantially worse for the NHS than a future involving the Withdrawal Agreement.

It discusses difficulties in recruiting medical staff which they see as the most challenging area. It goes on to illuminate the issues with financing health care, saying "The only aspect of NHS financing after Brexit in which we can expect no change is for reciprocal health care under the Withdrawal Agreement. Obviously even this goes if we are unable to reach a deal and just drop out. It then looks at all other aspects of NHS where, they say, financing is negatively affected under all Leave outcomes.

"Ceasing of this system will have major consequences for older UK residents, especially if they have pre-existing conditions, because insurance cover, which might not be available for those with the most severe conditions, could be extremely expensive." Some other groups will be particularly affected, such as patients on dialysis who benefit from provisions that allow them to receive it in centres in other member states."

They looked at the consensus of economic reports and noted that the outcomes suggested in those reports - of a negative impact on the economy - have been borne out. They point out that forecasting is always difficult but in the case of Brexit is it more so.

"As one of the largest areas of public expenditure, any negative impact on the UK economy will put additional pressure on NHS financing ..."

The paper also looks at other areas which will have an effect on health. Food supply (there was an interview about this on "Today, R4, this morning) because of our overwhelming importing of fresh fruit and vegetables.

"... a modelling study estimated that a No-Deal Brexit could lead to between 6000 and 23 000 excess deaths from cardiovascular disease between 2021 and 2030."

There was a great deal more of course. You can read the article (if you register) here: www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(19)30425-8/fulltext?fbclid=IwAR3NrFJwWrGUD-P0BZcq51fo9KApsEJdToJvvYI2kPOBkC5n38JzpT0BXJ4

jura2 Fri 09-Aug-19 10:10:47

Indeed- btw Minniemoo - our Government can put in place any procedures they wish - but we are an Island (even though Raab has only just found out...) reliant on air and road freight dependant mainly on EU procedures and treaties we will no longer be part off. So our Government's procedures are all hot air and not worth the paper they are written on ....

MaizieD Fri 09-Aug-19 09:46:00

The NHS sadly pays far too much for many items.

Once Trump gets his trade deal with the desperate UK the NHS will be paying far, far more...

jura2 Fri 09-Aug-19 09:41:17

Minniemoo- the NHS will pay a lot more post Brexit for sure, in so many ways. To begin with, tanking Sterling is adding a lot to cost, and then there will be tariffs. Also the EU, in times of natural shortages, will prioritise their own members, quite naturally. And then of course, import issues, by air or sea/road.

Why anyone would find this 'hilarious' is beyond me.

jura2 Fri 09-Aug-19 09:38:20

Goodbytoallthat 'Medication not being available is hilarious. Really?,

what is it do do not understand, or find 'hilarious' indeed - that also goes to instruments for operations, prostheses, isotopes for cancer treatment? Hilarious, did you say?

Minniemoo Wed 07-Aug-19 20:29:51

"The UK is currently not seen as reliable (caused by Brexit), so they put the NHS towards the bottom of their buyers' list and try to charge a premium, which the NHS is reluctant to pay.' How I wish that was true. Google liothyronine and see how much the NHS was paying for it. A drug that costs £5 in Europe. Here I'll do it for you. The NHS sadly pays far too much for many items. It needs a shake up.

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/21/drug-firm-concordia-overcharged-nhs-with-6000-price-rise

Minniemoo Wed 07-Aug-19 20:26:08

And to think you googled. The NHS has categorically stated that there is no cause for concern. Procedures have been put in place.

Minniemoo Wed 07-Aug-19 20:24:46

growstuff. I have been on medication for many years. During this time I have been told that they didn't have enough and gave me the slip and told they'd phone when it was in stock

This is quite a common scenario.

This was happening long before Brexit.

Who or what should I have blamed?

growstuff Wed 07-Aug-19 20:21:00

By the way, Goodbyetoallthat, there are plenty of other parts of Gransnet.

growstuff Wed 07-Aug-19 20:20:03

Why's that then?

I don't suppose the people whose drugs aren't available think it's hilarious.

By the way, I have personal experience of this. I rely on certain drugs for my quality of life and, for the second month running, the pharmacist couldn't give me a whole month of supplies. Last month I had to make three separate trips to the pharmacist to pick up a few days' tablets at a time. The pharmacist told me she'd had to ring round all sorts of places to get them for me. Of course, she could have been lying or scare-mongering, but I don't think so. This month, she could only give me tablets for 7 days and I'm expecting a phone call, when she's managed to get more.

Goodbyetoallthat Wed 07-Aug-19 20:13:56

Medication not being available is hilarious. Really?
Not sure gransnet is the place for me.

growstuff Wed 07-Aug-19 20:08:41

Errrmmm...read my post Minniemoo, as you claim to be such a clever clogs.

growstuff Wed 07-Aug-19 20:07:43

I couldn't find anything about any protocol, which is why I asked you. I googled it the first time you mentioned it.

growstuff Wed 07-Aug-19 20:06:46

I have been told by people working at a senior level within the pharmaceutical industry that there IS a shortage of certain drugs. There used to be a publicly available list, but it's only available to pharmacists now.) It isn't directly to do with Brexit because obviously Brexit hasn't happened yet. However, Brexit is a factor. The government is stockpiling certain drugs, so it's becoming increasingly difficult for pharmacists to get hold of them. Not only that, but there is a global supply problem. Pharma companies will obviously sell to the highest and most reliable buyer. The UK is currently not seen as reliable (caused by Brexit), so they put the NHS towards the bottom of their buyers' list and try to charge a premium, which the NHS is reluctant to pay.

You may also have read that Trump wants to include the price of drugs in any trade deal. That's not scare-mongering, but real (you can Google it if you want and find the actual speech). He made a speech last announcing his intention to stop American companies selling to the NHS at lower costs than they charge American consumers. His intention is to reduce the cost paid by Americans, subsidised by higher charges to the NHS.

Minniemoo Wed 07-Aug-19 20:00:25

Read up for yourself Growstuff. Read what the NHS has said. This poster moaning about his pills not being available and the GP blaming Brexit. We haven't even left the EU yet!

And I thought that the Remainers were the intelligent ones. The more I read the more hilarious that assertion is.

growstuff Wed 07-Aug-19 19:56:51

Which protocol is that?

Minniemoo Wed 07-Aug-19 19:55:11

Having many family in the medical world, this assertion that Brexit is causing lack of medication should be investigated.

Any GP or pharmacist that says that is going against all the protocol.

I wonder if it's even true. Just sounds like a good way to back up a dramatic argument.

GracesGranMK3 Wed 07-Aug-19 19:50:48

But they are not allowed to be truthful facts Dyffryn. They have to be "scaremongering facts". Rather as in Trumps America, a fact is not a fact unless the Brexiters agree it is.

Dyffryn Wed 07-Aug-19 19:41:02

I have posted before about not being able to get hold of some medication I take. My GP and pharmacist both said it was to do with Brexit and if we leave without a deal the situation will only get worse. I don’t see it as scaremongering, just stating the facts.

Elegran Wed 07-Aug-19 19:20:29

If you feel experts are not to be trusted, why so much trust in the "so-called experts" who say that it will all be OK? Surely they have the same vested interest in wanting to be voted into power to run it all as those who say it will not be OK?

Elegran Wed 07-Aug-19 19:17:00

But the general accusation was for ALL those who have the opinion that Brexit is NOT going to be the unqualified success that the career politicians are claiming. You seem to say that all of those who say that we would be better off remaining in the EU are just doing it to cause panic and stir up fear . You can't say that - it is not just career politicians (who may have a vested interest in having everyone vote them into positions of power where they will sort it all out) there are many many people who are genuine and truthful, and have used their intelligence and the experience of alifetime in their chosen field, who have given their considered opinion. Then there are the ordinary people who have the common sense and the exprience of living for sixty years or so as grownips in the world, who say the same thing - ^it is going to be hell on earth for quite a long time, and we will not get any help from our so-called "allies" in the States, who will apply savage commercial competition to our trading negotiations - as will the Chinese and all those other nations where it was going to be " a piece of cake" to grow our relationships.

These people are NOT agents provocateurs out to make the country panic. It is paranoia to imagine that they are.

GracesGranMK3 Wed 07-Aug-19 19:10:09

Why are the people you mention 'so-called' experts Firecracker? Is this yet another example of you telling us you know more than they do? My goodness, the country is missing your expertise in all these areas.

Firecracker123 Wed 07-Aug-19 18:55:49

Elegran I didn't target you personally, I meant Remainers in general and the so called experts, Carney, Osborne etc but hey ho if the cap fits as they say or not in your case.

Elegran Wed 07-Aug-19 18:17:47

Good grief, I must have been very annoyed at being accused of spiteful enough to be deliberately spreading panic to have made so many errors in one post. Last sentence of my third paragraph should be "A member of Gransnet from its inception, who has been avoiding the argy-bargy of the political threads assiduously and successfully for eight years."

varian Wed 07-Aug-19 18:12:13

Ex-Sainsbury's CEO: Brexit means 'higher prices, less choice, and poorer quality' at supermarkets

www.businessinsider.com/ex-sainsburys-ceo-justin-king-brexit-effect-supermarkets-2017-7?r=US&IR=T

Elegran Wed 07-Aug-19 18:11:08

Posted in haste without noticing that half a sentence had vanished. First sentence should read "Why the flaming hair-oil would the many sane, logical, quiet-spoken, and really nice people among the population who keep saying that this is the worst political decision they have ever witnessed be saying that just so as to spread panic around?"