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Meanwhile in Scotland 2

(163 Posts)
Granny23 Tue 06-Aug-19 12:04:11

I was going to post this on the BBC bias thread but thought it might get losts in other aspects of the discussion.

Then I thought I would post it on the old Meanwhile in Scotland thread, but was advised by GN HQ that as that was over a year old I would be better to start a new thread - Hence MIS2.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/majority-of-scots-back-independence-as-no-deal-brexit-looms-ashcroft-poll-shows-nctw5zkqv?fbclid=IwAR3TeBkwuszIoLZfNKkI25NNOv9SvxMC

Recent polls have shown an almost 50/50 split on Scottish Independence. This poll, conducted by of all people the Conservative Lord Ashcroft is the first in recent times to show a YES vote in the lead.

I wanted to post it for two reasons

1) because the BBC did not mention it any any of their news bulletins even the BBC Scotland ones (bias?)

2) because the comments following the report in The Times show a woeful lack of knowledge of the finances and assets of Scotland and are repeating the old 'Spain would block them', 'they would be bankrupt', WE (who is We?) would not let them use the pound' etc.etc. There are comments suggesting that the money saved by not paying the Scottish Block Grant could mean a boost of billions for the NHS in England/Wales completely ignoring that the loss of all tax and revenue from Scotland would wipe 10%ish (perhaps more if you consider oil and gas licences and revenues) from the RUK budget at a stroke. Nor do they realise that an Independent Scotland within the EU would not suffer from the loss of exports to England when they have tariff free access to the vast market of the EU.

Is this a representative view of (presumably educated) Times readers? Or are they as ignorant as the average Daily Mail poster?

Granny23 Tue 06-Aug-19 12:08:24

For refernence link to old thread

www.gransnet.com/info/search?q=Meanwhile+in+Scotland......

varian Wed 07-Aug-19 20:19:52

The Royal Bank of Scotland chief executive has said the bank will move its head office to England if Scotland votes to become independent.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/rbs-will-move-to-england-if-scotland-becomes-independent-1-4978241

almcg2001 Wed 07-Aug-19 20:48:48

However the Scotsman failed to mention:

Asked what such a move would mean in reality, he replied: “Not much at all. We would have to get approval from the Scottish Government and Westminster to say our registered office is now in the UK.”

He said: “As long as things stay competitive here – i.e. we could get talented people and they want to work here – not much changes. We have been moving staff from London to other locations over the last five years.”

source:
www.scottishfinancialnews.com/article/leave-independence-decision-up-to-scots-says-rbs-boss-as-he-predicts-brexit-pain-and-anguish

paddyann Wed 07-Aug-19 22:25:26

given their track record re the bankers issues and Fred Goodwin,would any of us try to stop them leaving? If they are still paying massive bonuses and have huge debts maybe we'd be better off without them .

We had all this scaremongering in 2014 ,heard it all before were we better together? Were our pensions safer in the UK? Was it only by staying in the Uk that we could stay in the EU? and many many more lies that we were fed .Roll on Independence !

Granny23 Thu 08-Aug-19 20:12:52

It seems to me that RBS are leaving by degrees. They have closed the 3 small branches in neighbouring towns. Now if I need to visit the Bank I have to travel into the City, park in an expensive car park and walk some distance through a shopping Mall to get to the nearest Branch. There is always a huge queue and you cannot talk to anyone about your account without making an appointment - usually a week or two in advance. They are no longer making any effort to hold onto or attract new customers or function efficiently as a High Street Bank.

It also occurs to me that to entirely leave Scotland, (when in the near future Scotland may be within the EU while the rest of the UK is out) is a monumental folly. Perhaps they have a secret plan which will keep their options open, but given the way they have behaved over the past decade, I would not put any money on it.

almcg2001 Thu 08-Aug-19 22:32:17

That is an interesting take on the situation. My understanding is that they would only move their registered office south and that the current jobs in Scotland would still be as it stands. I think that all banks are closing branches (not great) and certainly RBS's record is not good.
I took the initial reporting of RBS leaving as 'Project Fear Mk2' because I do not see them shooting themselves in the foot when they have talented and experienced staff in Scotland. Time will tell.smile

Granny23 Thu 03-Oct-19 22:01:14

While the Westminster Parliament is in disarray, Holyrood IS getting on with the day job.

This today from Ross Finney:

I am absolutely delighted that this evening the Scottish Parliament has taken the historic and courageous step of backing my Children (Equal Protection from Assault) (Scotland) Bill. The Bill means Scotland becomes the first UK country to ban physical punishment and protect children from violence.

The leadership shown by MSPs in backing the Bill sends a strong message that violence is never acceptable in any setting, and that our children deserve at least the same legal protections that adults enjoy.

I am extremely proud to have brought forward this legislation. It enhances children’s rights, and I believe that today marks a significant step towards making Scotland the best country in the world for children to grow up in.

John Finnie MSP

Granny23 Thu 03-Oct-19 22:07:17

Sorry for Ross Finney read John Finnie

Also announced today (from the Herald)

FRACKING has been banned in Scotland because it is “incompatible” with tackling the climate change emergency, the SNP Government has confirmed.

After six years of deliberations, energy minister Paul Wheelhouse said the government had decided to refuse to grant any licences for the controversial gas extraction technique.

He said this “strong policy” position and embedding opposition to fracking in the next National Planning Framework due in 2021 meant a legislative ban was unnecessary.

However he told MSPs that a ban in law may become preferable in future.

paddyann Thu 03-Oct-19 23:00:48

Banks are certainly not leaving Scotland ,Morgan Chase are building a massive Scottish headquarters in Glasgow,for any of you who know the city,its on the site of the old What Every Woman Wants store in Argyle St.Thousands of jobs coming with it.The reopening of our stock exchange,closed by WM decades ago may be a decider as the Scottish pound appears to be worth more in some...not all continental and asian financial markets .Maybe Boris boasting about taking control of Scotlands vast marine wealth is just the thing we need to turn some No's to Yes .....they believed we were too poor to go it alone ,now Boris has informed them we are not and Hammonds statement about Scottish finances paying Westminsters debts confirms what Nationalists have said all along !

GabriellaG54 Fri 04-Oct-19 16:34:55

Well, Granny23 I think differently.
I opened an account with RBS 3 months ago.
Naturally, with some account openings they require you to go into the bank with ID and that's quite normal.
I have the app and have found them to be a welcoming and efficient bank.
Many shops and business are closing and reducing their High Street presence due to many factors, two of them being high rents and customer's increasing use of online sites, both of which are well known.

One of my banks closed as did another in a nearby small town. My nearest is 4 miles away in Guildford which, thankfully, still has the full complement of banks, national and international.
John Lewis is merging it's management with that of Waitrose and jobs will, of necessity, be lost.

Times change. We don't use florins, half-crowns or ten-bob notes, nor do we buy food in pounds and ounces.

Fashion and music changes and we now, amongst other changes, recognise gay and lesbian marriage and trans men being pregnant.
Banks now have no need for a bricks and mortar presence on every main street in every village or town.
It may be sad for some but that's life.

varian Sat 05-Oct-19 16:05:54

Mr Johnson insisted on Friday that he would not delay Brexit despite his lawyers saying he will comply with a law calling for the October 31 exit date to be postponed if there is no deal.

The Prime Minister accepted he must send a letter requesting a delay to Brexit beyond the Halloween deadline if no deal is agreed with Parliament by October 19 , Scotland's highest civil court heard.

But the PM later said the options facing the country were his proposed new Brexit deal or leaving without an agreement, "but no delay".

The Prime Minister has previously said "we will obey the law" but will also leave on October 31 in any circumstance, without specifying how he would achieve the apparently contradictory goals - fuelling speculation that he had identified a loophole to get around the Benn Act.

The Telegraph, citing EU sources, said senior ministers had reached out to the Hungarian government for assurances it would veto any request for a delay - seen as one way the PM could comply with the law and deliver Brexit this month.

He has also declared that he would rather be "dead in a ditch" than ask for a delay.

Any extension to the Article 50 process - the mechanism by which the UK leaves the European Union - would have to be agreed by all 27 other EU leaders.

The legal action - led by businessman Vince Dale, SNP MP Joanna Cherry QC and Jolyon Maugham QC - asked the court to require Mr Johnson to seek an extension to avoid leaving the EU without a deal.

Andrew Webster QC, representing the UK Government, said the documents it has submitted to the court are a "clear statement" as to what the Prime Minister will do.

He argued there is no need for an order to be made forcing a letter requesting an Article 50 extension to be sent under the terms of the Benn Act, because the court has it on record it will be sent.

Judge Lord Pentland is to announce his decision on Monday.

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-eu-cancels-weekend-talks-because-boris-johnsons-new-plans-do-not-provide-a-basis-a4254886.html

jura2 Wed 16-Oct-19 09:12:04

Ian Blackford stands up to speak in HoC- and Boris and front bench get up and walk out. They really are doing their best to alienate the Scottish people.

Fiachna50 Wed 16-Oct-19 09:46:41

I can't stand Ian Blackford either and turn the TV off when he comes on. I am Scottish born and still live in my beloved country. As for Scottish Govt doing the day job, yeah of course they are. If we ever gain Independence (and I for one hope we don't) we better be prepared to dig deep in our pockets for this whole exercise. We had a referendum , only 5 years ago, it's done. Why aren't we sorting out the 2 hospitals? One that is costing us, the taxpayer over one million pound a month, but is still not fit for purpose. The QE hospital in Glasgow is another disaster. When are we going to sort out Police, Fire and Rescue and the woeful state they are in. When are we going to sort out education? That SNP conference was a farce. I think they were to feart to let Ms Freeman speak, they would be worried she'd have to explain the state of Scottish NHS, which is nothing to do with Westminster and not forgetting the MESH scandal. If we gain Independence all the freebies will have to be paid for and where is the money coming from....As for the EU, who has actually come out and said publicly that Scotland would gain automatic entry? I wouldn't have the Euro for nothing. Go to the Irish Republic and find out just how expensive that is. Given the empty seats at the recent SNP conference I do not think I am alone in my thinking. Ms Sturgeon does not speak for me.

Jane10 Wed 16-Oct-19 10:30:24

Nor me Fiachna! But the usual SNP grans know that.

paddyann Wed 16-Oct-19 11:43:29

How very sad that some still prefer another country ,another government to run Scotland.Given the current mess Boris and CO are making and the UK debt rising daily we would be far better running our own affairs ...not Boris style affairs !
IF we weren't already IN the union what would the advantages be of joining?
Would you be happy to hand over 85% of your powers to WM ?
Would you be happy to hand over the purse strings and let them use our taxes pay for Londons crossrail and London sewers.HS2 .Buck house renovations and Big Ben...etc etc etc .Phillip Hammond has said England cant afford to pay its debts without Scottich finacial help.
Wouldn't OUR taxes be better put to use for the people of Scotland ?
Even my English family ..born and bred English family believ we should be Independent .

Daisymae Wed 16-Oct-19 12:10:06

I was listening to Nicola sturgeon yesterday and she mentioned something about not being treated as an equal partner. I did a quick Google and found out that there's several more million people in London than the whole of Scotland. Made me think.

Jabberwok Wed 16-Oct-19 12:11:29

But happy enough to hand over your affairs to Brussels?!! The prospect of having to use the Euro? Well,good luck with that!! Ireland had to be bailed out not so long ago! Not sure the rest of the UK would be up for that, AGAIN!
My understanding of independence is just that - on your own, managing your own affairs, like we want to do post Brexit!
If Scotland wants to leave the union,so be it, but to join Brussels? I'm sure you'll be welcomed with open arms, until, like Ireland, you cease to be useful! Be careful what you wish for!

Jane10 Wed 16-Oct-19 12:18:13

paddyann it's not another country or another government. Its ourcountry. We're British. Scotland is part of Britain.

mcem Wed 16-Oct-19 12:21:14

'Happy to hand over your affairs to Brussels.'
No. But to participate as an equal party - yes.
Prefer to be a subservient part of a post-brexit UK under Bojo and his right-wing cohort?
No thank you.

paddyann Wed 16-Oct-19 12:34:02

Scotland is ONE country ON the island of Great Britain Jane10 You know that ...or if you dont then your education was sadly lacking .There is no such country as "Britain"

paddyann Wed 16-Oct-19 12:38:42

Jabberwok why do YOU think Westminster is so keen to hold onto us? Its not our charm and good looks ....though we have both in bucketsful.Its what Mr Hammond said ..you cant survive without us .We provide you with energy and water and billions and billions of tax revenue every year .While WE have to exist on a budget meted out from the money we send south.
Scotland in Europe gives us the support of 27 other nations all in the same situation ,not big bully WM and the rest of the minions in the DISunited kingdom .

Calendargirl Wed 16-Oct-19 12:58:26

If there is another referendum and the result doesn’t suit, who’s to say it will get implemented anyway, if Brexit is anything to go by.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 16-Oct-19 13:10:21

A bit like the UK and EU, for every £1 we give Brussels we get 38p back.

So will you be happy with a similar arrangement for an Independent Scotland and EU?

Jabberwok Wed 16-Oct-19 14:21:16

I sympathise Paddyann! The UK has the same problem with the EU! Determined to hang onto us at all costs despite what the majority want! I think you'll find that the rest of the UK won't be at all difficult if you want to leave the union, in direct contrast to how the EU has been with us! Not sure that Westminster is that desperate!! I'm sure Scotland will manage perfectly on its own as it did many moons ago. As for us, we'll be just fine, and not to have to listen to Ian Blackford in Westminster or anywhere else will be an added bonus!