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For those of you who use the words of war as if it is still being fought -

(98 Posts)
GracesGranMK3 Tue 06-Aug-19 20:02:42

This poignant caller told James O'Brien the words of his WW2 veteran grandfather over Brexit: "I am hearing voices in my own country which we saw the back of in 1945."

James was asking why a number of Brexiters seem to treat the EU as an enemy, suggesting that people who grew up in the aftermath of the war are against the EU, whereas those who fought in the war are in favour of it.

This is certainly true in my family. My mother, (now 98) and a WAAF during the war, could not understand why we would want to leave; why we seemed to want to turn our backs on peace when she voted in the referendum. It makes me so angry that those who did no live through the war as adults - or at all in some cases - hijack the language of my parents generation, turning its meaning on its head. It seems such a cowardly thing to do.

jura2 Tue 06-Aug-19 20:06:30

It is indeed quite shameful, and very upsetting, sickening too.

SirChenjin Tue 06-Aug-19 20:14:43

I agree. I also feel it’s given a voice to less desirable views as witnessed by the preferred colour/religion comment recently on another thread. People feel emboldened to say things they should be ashamed to think, let alone vocalise - the undercurrents are frightening.

Doodle Tue 06-Aug-19 20:30:35

Sorry can’t access the link to read it so it may well say some unsavoury things. I am post war but certainly do not consider any other country the enemy. I voted Brexit but have no hatred (or even dislike) of anyone. Colour, creed or religion were not part of my reason. I would like this country to make its own laws for its people. I am proud of being British but have no ill will or feeling to others. I expect you are right that there are many who voted leave for other reasons but not all of us voted because of racist views or hatred for others.

varian Tue 06-Aug-19 20:36:51

Which laws influenced by the EU do you object to?

paddyann Tue 06-Aug-19 20:47:09

Doodle do you mean the laws that were all ratified by English ..and Scots and Welsh and NI MEPS? By this country I assume you mean England as the rest of us have to live by laws we 've had no say in as 85% of Westminster Mp's are English and have no interest in the 3 other nations .

Minniemoo Tue 06-Aug-19 20:58:22

My father fought in WWII. Scots Guards. He actually loved Germany and it people and went back many times. However, he was very anti-EU. Didn't want us to join in the 70s and until his death last year was a fervent Leaver. He disliked how it had evolved over the years . He was a highly intelligent man as well. Even though I'm sure some of you will think he was stupid.

Anecdotal evidence is pointless.

And for every person, whatever their ages, who says one thing there will be another who has opposing views.

SirChenjin Tue 06-Aug-19 20:58:56

I disagree with you there paddyann don’t tar all MPs with the same nationalist brush.

Returning to the original question - what EU laws that we had a vote on don’t sit well with you Doodle?

M0nica Tue 06-Aug-19 21:16:48

Many of the EU laws are laws that we in the UK would have passed anyway, if we had not been in the EU. Laws relating to health and safety, environmental issues and many others.

In fact the British Parliament has already passed an Act that incorporates many, if not most, EU laws into British legislation, so Doodle, even after Brexit you will still have to comply with EU law, that British governments were so in favour of, that they have kept them.

As others have pointed out, the EU is us, not a group of aliens with whom we have no involvement, but who make laws for us. We made these laws when we were in the EU and we want to keep them.

jura2 Tue 06-Aug-19 21:29:24

well, I thought the one about kippers was totally out of order - pffft sad oh and bent bananas hey.

Opal Tue 06-Aug-19 21:32:56

That's a sweeping statement GGMK3 - whereas those who fought in the war are in favour of it. My father fought in the war, was never in favour of joining the common market, or staying in the EU. He always felt that his generation had fought for our country's freedom, only to shackle ourselves 30 years later to the common market.

You accuse Brexiteers of hijacking the language of my parents' generation - I think you are the one that's doing the hijacking - and falsely reporting the views of a lot of my parents' generation. You may speak for your parents, but please don't try to speak for mine.

M0nica Tue 06-Aug-19 22:09:26

jura, the kippers one was a British law not an EU law, Boris got it the wrong way round.

Straight bananas, like straight cucumbers did occur in a discussion document but were never put into any legislation. I have yet to see a straight version of either comestible in a supermarket in this country or in France.

M0nica Tue 06-Aug-19 22:11:54

paddyann 85% of Westminster Mp's are English agreed and have no interest in the 3 other nations. what is the evidence this is so?

MaizieD Tue 06-Aug-19 22:21:44

I think jura was joking, MOnica

Deedaa Tue 06-Aug-19 22:42:53

My parents were never keen on the Common Market but the teachers at my primary school in the 50s were very much in favour of a united Europe.

GracesGranMK3 Tue 06-Aug-19 22:47:11

If you look Opal the "sweeping statement", as you describe it, was the conclusion James O'Brien had reached so perhaps you should take it up with him.

GracesGranMK3 Tue 06-Aug-19 22:54:31

I'm sorry, I didn't logic the link wasn't working. This should be.

MaizieD Tue 06-Aug-19 22:57:23

I just wonder how much of some of our parents' reluctance to join the Common Market was influenced by its association with Germany? After all, Britain was in decline and had lost its empire while our former 'enemy' was thriving...

Speaking very generally here, though. My father died before we joined and I can't remember my mother or grandparents expressing any view on it at all.

GracesGranMK3 Tue 06-Aug-19 23:08:42

I deliberately did not put what my father would have said as he was not with us by the time of the referendum. My mother was and I have watched veterans being interviewed who, without exception, have said Brexit is not what they wanted. My comment was about the hijacking of the language of war, and the sentimentality. There are some who misuse it in relation to Brexit, and then act as if the language makes them some sort of patriot. It doesn't.

Minniemoo Tue 06-Aug-19 23:23:07

Well I haven't done that. But language isn't owned by any generation. People are free, by and large, to say what they like.

Just as all the older people I've spoken to want to leave the EU. Without exception. Veterans interviewed on local TV also express s desire to leave.

I'm sure there are plenty that want to Remain but I've yet to meet any.

Dinahmo Wed 07-Aug-19 00:43:25

M0nica - I think you'll find that the discussion document re straight bananas appeared in the Daily Telegraph under the name of our new and illustrious PM. One of his many little fibs that first appeared in the DT and subsequently in the tabloids.

Dinahmo Wed 07-Aug-19 00:51:54

Minniemoo - did you not see the interview on Channel 4 News with Marie Scott who received the Legion D'Honneur for her role as a switchboard operator during Operation Overlord. Her views were very different to the ones that you have listened to.

Lyndiloo Wed 07-Aug-19 01:22:46

MOnica - you've never seen a straight cucumber??? (Did I read that correctly?)

Do you eat salads? When did you last buy a cucumber?

I can't remember the time I last saw a natural, curved cucumber! Years ago!

Minniemoo Wed 07-Aug-19 01:50:24

No, I didn't, DInahmoo. But there are always going to be so who voted Remain.

The media does tend to be pro-Remain. Maybe they could interview some old Brexit Army hero and see what he/she thinks

As I have said numerous times on here. whichever outcome you prefer, you will always be able to find what fits your belief.

growstuff Wed 07-Aug-19 06:58:24

I'm really surprised that you think the media is pro-Remain and was wondering if you could expand on that. As far as I can see, most of the mass circulation newspapers are pro-Leave. I hardly ever watch TV, but I do read the BBC, ITV and Sky websites, which seem to be more balanced but more pro-Leave.