A very English Brexit

A UK farmer once said to me after he had loosened his tongue with a bottle of red wine “we had better not leave the EU they are paying my children’s school fees”

I just read an interesting article about why the Torres want to leave and how there is no such thing as democracy now that social media is able to target individuals with a specific message to suit their own prejudices. It said that we were a guinea pig in manipulation, and I do strongly believe that as the evidence is so strong. The rich are getting richer throughout this, it is us, the people, who will end up poorer and we will have done this to ourselves. One argument I felt was very strong was that without us, the overriding power in the EU will come from the East (think about that for a moment). This is another aspect that causes great concern to me as it shifts the balance of power away from the West.

LuckyFour - completely agree. We're done very well out of the EU - we're the 6th richest economy in the world, and we've had over 70 years of peace in Europe. Do we want to risk our children and grandchildren having to sleep in air raid shelters again? Not me.

I agree with you LuckyFour. The current situation with Boris at the helm is like walking blindfold off a cliff.

I’m at a loss to understand why grannies are not supposed to discuss news and politics on the news and politics feed of gransnet? If you don’t like news or politics don’t visit the feed! I am intensely interested in what is happening with our politics these days; we are discussing the futures of our children and grandchildren! What is more relevant to grannies? It doesn’t matter what we voted for it is we who are facing huge change which half the country wanted and half did not! That’s a fact and is the clearest outcome of this whole mess. Like it or lump it, it is our mess! Nobody else’s, not the EU - ours! And we have to live with it! But for heavens sake let’s talk about it!

Nanatoone - absolutely. A lot of people don't seem to realise how much influence Putin has had on this whole sorry mess, not only in the USA via his puppet Trump (who is constantly urging us to leave), but on the fact that he wants the demise of the EU of which Brexit is only the first step. As the EU declines, Putin's confidence will grow - bad news for all of us.

The Great Hack is a Netflix production. It's not a true life documentary and has been spiced up in an attempt to make it more sensational. Netflix are renowned for doing this sort of thing. Going so far as to blame the young brother of JonBenet Ramsey which put me off their productions.

Jayemwhite..couldn’t have put it better....

(Wed 07-Aug-19 10:31:56)
I joined this lovely group of grans to talk about granny things. (Sigh)

Was there a day FredaG when you decided you were too old for politics or are you just not concerned about the future of your children and grandchildren. That seems like a very weird thing to say.

I live in England and voted "REMAIN". Nearly all the people I know voted REMAIN too. "Vote Leave" told more lies than the Remain Campaign but both sides acted shamefully. Now the facts are better understood we are owed a second vote to say Yes or No. I'd still say REMAIN.

Since 2016 about 2 million mainly older voters have passed away and roughly the same number of younger voters have became eligible to vote, the future belongs to the young and they are owed a say. No one voted for the Brexit we are faced with.

Being outside of any organisation (no matter how much it needs adjusting) that has such an impact on our lives is vital in order to change it. The world is shrinking and we can no longer sit on the edge of it pretending no-one else matters - our future is inextricably connected to the rest of the world and we need to be aware who would be our natural allies - inside and outside the UK.

CarlyD...I think you're probably right, but there has been a lot of grumbling about the current situation for a long time.

Being more Scottish than English, I'd be interested in seeing what happens in Scotland if they leave us. Will they track down the descendants of Bonnie Prince Charlie and become a kingdom again? I suppose we will need another Hadrians wall on the border.
Can Wales survive economically? Certainly a united Ireland would be the best thing to come out of all this. The alternative would be for Eire to leave the EU too. No need for the 'backstop' then!

Jayemwhite they are elected

I campaigned actively to not enter in the original referendum but when we lost by 2/3 to 1/3 my view was that we had to be wholehearted members. How ever from day one shysters like Cash were determined to undermine that referendum and now demand that a very marginal result is more valid than the result they always rejected supported by the section of the press that supported the Nazis and fascists in the 30s.

It is strange that these ex-etonians have while ensuring that we plebs have to pay the prices for Brit to a man and woman have taken steps to ensure that their family's businesses and wealth has been moved off our shores to various EU countries. A case of do what I say but not what I do

Sorry brexit not brit

A few members seem to imply Wales, Scotland and Ireland are ruled by Westminster. Wrong. Ireland is a republic. Northern Ireland (Ulster) is part of the United Kingdom. There is some talk of a return to a Direct Rule of Ulster.

@Jayemwhite

I know you don’t believe in experts and facts but just in case you’re open to reading...







fullfact.org/europe/reciprocal-benefits/

A total generalisation by the OP GracesGranMK3!

I'm certainly not a member of the upper claaaaaas, yet decided to vote to leave the EU.

For many reasons - I felt our country could no longer keep accepting such high levels of immigration, annual sub to EU ridiculously high, with little benefit to UK. No control of our borders, we are unable to ban EU members with criminal records. If Turkey eventually join the EU, immigration levels will rise enormously.

Not a chance that Ireland will leave the EU.

We know when we’re on to a good thing!

I assume you're aware that there are more immigrants from non-EU countries and the UK has never ever relinquished any control over non-EU immigration, so your reasoning is misguided.

I rather think RosieLea that the Northern Irish will never agree to a united Ireland.

As for the Scots. After Brexit they may have another referendum and decide to come out of the United Kingdom but will they be able to afford to rejoin the EU and will they accept the Euro?

The UK does have control over its borders. We're not in Schengen and never have been. Next please!

This is not about the thread today, but I must ask if anybody knows what it will be like when travelling abroad, will we need visas for various countries, will there be a queue at borders or even to acquire a visa, its not easy to plan a journey at present, not knowing anything about the future after 31st October. Any thoughts fellow Gransnetters?

By the way, in terms of EU immigrants, the highest number are from Poland and the second highest from the Republic of Ireland. As a result of a 1923 agreement, the UK and Ireland have common travel area, which (as far as I'm aware) will not be affected by Brexit.

So, in summary, the UK has total control of non-EU immigration and won't be changing immigration from Ireland. Hmmm!

libra, sadly many of the people on here believe what they want to believe.

Most of the Leave vote came from up here in the North of England, the majority of voters being working-class folk. We feel that those in Westminster are completely out of touch with the common people and welcomed the chance to voice our feelings.

Don't forget that the Conservatives didn't want us to leave the EU, which is why the process has been dragged out for so long.