A very English Brexit

Greta, you describe it so well (Thu 08-Aug-19 12:03:30), I can only think people have very selective memories.

During the 70s my brother was stationed in Germany. We loved to visit and felt very at home there. I was born in Germany and my father was stationed there directly after the end of the war and repeatedly after that.

I could not get over how well everyone seemed to be doing. Everywhere we went was clean - which is more than could be said here and even those who were obviously not so well off were well dressed. There was a good choice of local and imported foods in the shops and a noticeable lack of constant grumbling.

I love this country but I do try not to be blind to the truth.

In the late 60's early 70's my parents lived in Holland. When we used to go over to stay we were amazed at how affluent and modern Holland was and the wonderful things in the shops that just weren't available here. Their supermarkets were like Waitrose is now with a huge range of high quality foods.

When we came home it always felt like returning to the dark ages.

The main reason for people voting to return to 'the good old days' is because they were young then, everything is great when you are young, the war was likely exciting for children but not so for the women who were working in grim conditions in factories and munitions and trying to feed a family on barely anything. Why anyone would get nostalgic about that, let alone the one or two deluded individuals on here who think that a return to wartime diet would be good for us,.....oh and likely keep us in our place too, none of this modern day speaking your mind leftie nonsense

1970: a house with central heating - yes
Some double glazing - yes
Furniture - some good quslity secondhand, some new
Modern decor (albeit that hideous style but it seemed on trend)
Yes, we did have winter coats and boots. Some of us even had hats, gloves and scarves although we may have knitted them.
There was a plethora of fabric shops so we could make our own and children's clothes - or go to M&S, C&A , department stores etc.

If someone moved to a flat share in London I'm not surprised they found it depressing. I did too.
And the trains can be worse now!
I didn't find France any brighter, better or more luxurious in the 1960s than GB was.

I think C&A came to us from Holland though, thank you.

Everyone is giving anecdotal examples, though, their personal experiences, so no-one can claim it as universal.

'Funny' that Brexiters often say Remainers are very London centric - and yet is it now clear it is massively English centric.

Away for a few days, several people from EU countries and the USA said to us 'it sounds like a Civil War' is brewing in the UK'.

When were the "good old days". My OH can remember the war, sheltering in the Anderson shelter and listening for the doodlebugs - you had to be afraid when their noise cut out.

I can remember the late forties and early fifties when we had rationing and my great grandmother sometimes gave me her sweetie ration if I'd been very good. Looking back I can see that the government of the day was very keen to preserve the health of small children. We were given doses of castor oil, calcium powder, horrible sweet orange juice and virol (whatever that was). . No-one had central heating so in the winter you could scrape the ice off the inside of your windows.

When the coalman passed along the road, my Dad would race out to collect the horses' deposits to put on his allotmemt. Hardly anyone had a car and if they did they would certainly never have used it to take children to school. We walked or travelled by public transport and in the winter our little knees were sore and chapped because we fell over on the ice and girls didn't have tights or trousers, just knee length skirts and long socks.

We were happy enough at the time because we knew nothing else and children always accept their circumstances as normal, but I certainly would not want my grandchildren to have to return to these "good old days".

I want my grandchildren to enjoy all the benefits and improvements to life we have seen since then - and that very much includes out membership of the European Union.

Remainers are city-centric. Nearly all the urban areas, apart from Birmingham, voted Remain.

I'd say it was 'city centric' - but now people realise the effect it will have on agriculture and jobs- things are changing fast.

In our very rural area, the vote was split pretty much 50/50 but that was three years ago.

Opinion has changed as we've learned so much more about the fraudulent referendum and the appalling consequenses of what is now being proposed - a no-deal brexit.

Most people here now want us to Remain in the EU. If you don't believe this, then test it with another vote.

simple enough ...

but they know ...

I recognise those scenarios varian (apart from the ^calcium powder!) Probably that is why the 60s and 70s seemed so abundant .

I live in a rural area and it voted remain, although part of the constituency, more urbanised, voted overwhelmingly to leave.

I couldn’t agree more Paddyann - Scotland has so much potential and is a fantastic wee country. It will be even better when we are able to govern ourselves.

The SNP is a minority government. “Scotland” did not vote for it ...

Scotland DID ,they have been the biggest party in Holyrood for ten years .There hasn't been a Tory government voted for in Scotland since the mid 1950's and dont get me started on the "election " of the new PM ...We ,the Scottish National Party also have more MP;s in WM than the other parties added together .How does that make us NOT a majority ?

If Scotland used the First Past the Post system as used in Westminster instead of Proportional Representstion, the SNP would have 80% of the seats in the Scottish Parliament. A rather sizeable majority!!!

Merrymary, wow I had no idea that is the case, Thanks for educating me. Will have to research further.

And if the Scottish Greens are added , Holyrood has a pro-independence majority.

The SNP is a minority government in Scotland - do the maths.
I live in Scotland and I didn’t vote SNP therefore Scotland did not vote for them.
The result of the 2014 referendum was No.
They do not have a mandate.

And before you accuse me of being a right wing facist I voted remain in the 2016 referendum.

Not just Birmingham voted to leave but most of East and West Midlands, Yorkshire and Wales too. I can remember a map of UK with Scotland and a circle around London and NI being different colour to show they wanted to remain.

Apparently many Brits living in Spain also voted to leave like this caller to James O'Brien, a conservative who agrees that we were lied to but that's because politicians always lie and anyway the "British bulldog spirit" will get us through it!

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/caller-no-deal-brexit-british-bulldog-spirit/

There should also have been a circle round Liverpool and Manchester.

And Newcastle-upon-Tyne?

And our house?

varian, so have some in France, and all over the EU, and even here in Switzerland. TBH their life is not going to be easy, as their British neighbours, and the locals- are absolutely furious and disgusted with them- and the local authorities will make it difficult for them to go through the hoops. You know, those who do not speak Spanish, French, etc, even after DECADES in the country, those who do not use local artisans and businesses, those who even buy their shopping on line from Tesco and get it shipped over in white vans (with the white goods, etc, for their renovations)- etc, etc.