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The "will of the people"

(59 Posts)
M0nica Fri 09-Aug-19 19:03:21

But even if another referendum reversed the result of the last one, if it was a close vote, then the leavers worries should be addressed in any negotiations with the EU.

You cannot just ignore the wishes of a very large proportion of the population just because another view won by a squeak.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 09-Aug-19 18:10:13

It's also three years later and much information has gone under the Brexit bridge M0nica. If "the will of the people" mutates with time then why oh why can't we have another vote.

M0nica Fri 09-Aug-19 17:57:34

Leavers won the referendum by a small majority, I have absolutely no problem with that, but when the vote is so close and the issue so important, I believe that the government should have borne this in mind when negotiating how we would leave.

I have been involved in formal and informal negotiations for most of my life and the key of negotiation is finding a solution that is equally acceptable/unacceptable to both parties, especially when those involved are fairly equally divided about the preferred outcome.

Those in government negotiating our exit since the referendum have ignored/not read/ chosen to flout, every rule out for successful negotiation. This lot couldn't negotiate themselves out of a paper bag, even if they tried. they would end up triple wrapped with string and parcel tape.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 09-Aug-19 17:49:22

I couldn't agree more Cindersdad but we are still being told this must go ahead because it is "the will of the people". But although people change their view, some move in one direction and some another it is being treated as if this one vote on one day told us something that must be democratically carried out; which is nonsense. But still they go on saying it.

Governments aren't supposed to listen to the people in that way. The MPs are doing their jobs and should not be ridiculed by falling back on this amorphous "will of the people". We need to challenge this meaningless phrase wherever we can.

Cindersdad Fri 09-Aug-19 17:02:23

"The Will of the People" is fickle and easily manipulated. In June 52% (of 75% of the electorate) had a gut reaction to a question which neither Remainers nor Leavers really understood. The make up of the People has changed by 4 million since the, 2 million deaths and about the same number of young coming of age. Brexiteers refer back to this snapshot of opinion using it as the reason to follow a dream which few of us have and the majority regard it as national nightmare.

Governments only listen to the people when it suits them. The fact that over 6 million took the trouble to sign a petition to stop article 50 shows that the "Will of the People" has more than likely changed.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 08-Aug-19 20:45:44

No support for the will of the people leavers? I wonder just how much rope we have to reel out before they realise how silly thinking a vote three years ago is of any relevance now?

GillT57 Thu 08-Aug-19 20:21:40

No talk about the remain voters, only trying to balance the wishes of those who want to leave with a WA and those prepared to crash out. I think it is all a cunning plan to terrify everyone at the prospect of a crash out Brexit, planning on everyone being grateful for a WA. Assuming that only a few people who voted leave did so with economic catastrophe a no deal Brexit as their choice, it makes the percentage or number of people who actually voted for this very small indeed. ^Waits for protests that everyone knew they were voting for wartime rations, loss of jobs, worldwide mockery,^ ( delete as applicable)

Greta Thu 08-Aug-19 19:21:18

I find the expression 'the will of the people' ridiculous. In 2016 this 'will' represented 52% of the people who chose to vote. Since the 48% have not been included in 'the people' they have no 'will'.

We often hear ”we must deliver Brexit”. The reason given is that we live in a democracy and we must respect 'the will of the people'. There seems to be a belief that if Brexit does not come about there will be a civil war. Those who voted to leave will be so angry that we must expect that they will take direct action. So how come that the 48% remainers have not caused civil unrest. They will lose their EU citizenship and have every right to be angry. Actually, they have every right to be furious at the circus that was the referendum and the last three years of incompetence.

I believe 'the will of the people' to be an excuse. To admit you were wrong, to lose face is never easy- for many it is impossible.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 08-Aug-19 17:06:13

This little phrase seems to be the answer to everything. Listening to someone talking on Sky this morning I had to agree that "the will of the people" is neither immutable, singular or sovereign and yet people have been convinced it is.

Why has this not been challenged by the press, the opposition, or anyone with some clout? How can we destroy the lie?