Outrage at Tory rhetoric

It may be better than UK prison rates Greta but nowhere near Colchester, the Forces ‘glasshouse’ prison which is around 10% and the set up there is as far from ‘liberalism’ as you can get. They must be doing something right.

Urmonstongran: Habitual offenders prove that liberalism towards the criminal fraternity isn’t working. It’s time to get tough and keep our streets safer.

But, Urmonstongran, the opposite appears to be true. The UK compares unfavourably with Scandinavia and the Netherlands when it comes to the number of people being sent to prison, rehabilitation and reoffending rates.

I believe that the Scandinavian countries are much more focused on equality in society. They have excellent childcare facilities which ensure that children get a good start in life. Also, there is an expection that fathers get involved in caring for children, they share the responsibility. We have done the opposite and cut support for families. Nobody is born a criminal. For some young people life presents many problems that they themselves cannot solve. If there is no safety net, no support network we should not be surprised that many get abused and drawn into criminality. I am certainly not saying that the Scandinavians have all the answers but I do believe we could learn from them.

How about prison being a deterrent for a novel idea? No phones, no drugs, no automatic halfway releases (which was probably a cost cutting exercise anyway). Rehabilitation? Don’t make me laugh. Habitual offenders prove that liberalism towards the criminal fraternity isn’t working. It’s time to get tough and keep our streets safer.

Daisymae, I'm afraid I no longer find it incredible. Lies – and subsequent denial, cheating, blaming others, manipulation, covering up – all is legal tender.

I read an apt statement some time ago: Quote: Politics is not a profession that encourages moral reflection or insight. “The ends justify the means” is good enough for most practitioners. End quote.

I find it incredible that with the NHS in its knees, police stretched, schools cutting hours, etc that this government seem to imply that it's nothing to do with them when in fact its been their own policy for 10 years! If only there were a credible opposition.

It’s good that deaths from knifecrime is reduced in Glasgow but gun crime has doubled and drug deaths have increased, so it’s not an especially safe haven.

If people make racist comments they should be called out, and not hide behind “everyone agrees with me” statements. Leave supporters complain about being labelled racist, but they should therefore challenge racist views made in their name and not just deny their existence, do you really think there are no racists in the U.K. who have used Brexit as a legitimate cover for their hate? Yes they do exist, I’ve seen and heard them.

I spoke to a policewoman who had been a prison warder for 15 years before joing the police.She said that there were folk in jail simply because they had no homes or support outside it.That she had a lot of prisoners who would be convicted on a Monday and sentenced to 28 days ,,they would be released on a Friday and she knew without doubt they would be back on the next monday She said she had a great relationship with them because she understood where the problem was.Thats why she moved to the police force to see if being on the same streets as these guys could make a difference.

In Scotland we have more police on the streets now than 10 years ago and the intake at the college is a steady number ,all ages from 18 to 50 something this year ,People from all walks of life lawyers and ex military included .There are also many more women ,its been said that a 5 foot woman can diffuse a situation easier than a6foot man and it seems that it does work.Crime is at a 40 year low here with violent crime in particular knife crime a real success ,there wasn't a single death from knife crime in Glasgow in 2017 .I dont have last years figures yet . Yes Police Scotland have had some issues but its steadily settling in now as with all new institutions do ..it just takes time .Hopefully the successes will continue

Unfortunately the Us and UK are currently swinging right-wing. In the US, I think it's a racist reaction to Obama (who I shamelessly worship).

Unfortunately here in the UK we haven't even had the intervention of a wonderful left-wing govt.

So much moaning about dishonest self serving politicians and when we DO get an honest one, he's reviled.

Boris is racist, sexist, homophobic. I can't believe he's our PM. I can believe he's going to drag us into Brexit regardless of the consequences. God help us all.

That must be heartbreaking luckygirl. I have worked in the prison system. There are so many folk with learning difficulties and mental illness. I used to see the new admissions on a Saturday coming in on remand from the courts. One lad I saw had no-one to tell he was going into prison because nobody cared less. Sad beyond words.

mumofmadboys - you are right about more emphasis needing to be placed on preventive services within the community - youth services have been cut to the bone; and mental health services for young people too - so many of the young prisoners are mentally ill or drug addicts.

I speak as someone who has a very close (adopted) relative who is in prison - this young person should never have got to the point where he finished up there if the services to treat his Aspergers and foetal drug/alcohol syndrome had been there. His sad troubled life has led him to be where he is at the moment, where he is being sold drugs, suffering extortion of money with menaces, being physically abused by the prison drug pushers - how can this happen you might ask? Indeed so - all this is happening under the noses of the prison officers who, one must assume, are in cahoots with it. Have we tried to get this sorted by reporting to the authorities? - indeed so. Did it get us anywhere? - no.

So - something has to be done. Maybe money is part of the answer; but governments giving a toss might also help.

I have not personally asked every member of the British public what they think but I have noted that the overwhelming evidence of a very large number of opinion polls for more than two years has consistently shown that the majority of the British public want the UK to Remain in the EU. So not a ridiculous statement

whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

I think we already imprison far too many people in this country. We should be trying to reduce our prison population rather than increase it. We need investment in youth services, drug education, treatment and rehab and invest in jobs for our school leavers.

those of us (the majority of the popultation) who oppose Brexit - have you personally asked every member of the British public? No, you haven't. Ridiculous statement.

Minniemoo - your posts are the most sensible on here. Sadly, there are some remainers on Gransnet, though not all, who are not prepared to listen to others' opinions. And if anyone dares to disagree on these threads, they're called racists because they supported Leave. According to these particular remainers, if you voted Leave, you must be a racist, or a fascist, or both.

Boris Johnson has accused MPs "who think they can block Brexit" of a "terrible collaboration" with the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49348072

This is yet another shocking use of war-time rhetoric, portraying our EU partners as "the enemy" and those of us (the majority of the popultation) who oppose brexit as "collaborators"

Outrageous and utterly disgusting manipulation of the English language for sordid political ends. No doubt it will go down well with the Daily Mail, Express and The Sun.

Your post was met with outrage because it was racist Rosie - don't try and pretend it wasn't. It was a horrible comment and showed you in a very poor light, and if you believe that others on here think the same as you then they should also be ashamed of themselves too.

Back to the OP - I agree. Quite why so many people blindly accept the claims made by the Tories without questionning the figures is a mystery.

Since when have you even tried to understand or accommodate the views of people who disagree with you?

Yes, it was.

Minniemoo....I wish there were more like you....so reasonable and accepting that we don't all think the same way.

I voted Leave and when someone asked me why, I made the mistake of giving an honest reply. My post met with outrage and was deleted. The fact is, that many people feel the same way I do but know better than to voice their opinions. The people on this site don't like honesty, even if it is regarded as 'racist'...which actually it wasn't. They don't know the definition of the word.

I quite agree growstuff. Many of Farage's fans are guilty as charged. Many will come out and blatantly admit it. I've been accosted myself by that sort of person.

But not everyone who voted for Brexit did so for that reason. And certainly not everyone who voted for Brexit would have voted for Farage. Which needs to be accepted.

I don't see that at all. I just see people saying 'where's your evidence'. It's an opinion. People have opinions. You shouldn't have to back up your opinion with 'evidence' You trot out your experts and say how much you believe in them but there are other experts who disagree with you.

Nobody here can make any difference whatsoever on the outcome of all this.

I am personally of the belief that a No Deal Brexit might not happen.

And I also dislike condemning a group of people who don't agree with me. I wouldn't do it.

PS. Some of them are racist and like Farage. I wish GN wouldn't delete the racist posts, so people can be shown up for what they are.

I see a lot of people who don't like their views being challenged and then cry wolf when they are.

I didn't actually say that Grandad was disrespecting anyone. I said we. As in all of us.

I see a lot of disrespect and rudeness directed towards those who maybe be right wing than the other way round. Not only on this forum. It's strange because the left claim to be the tolerant ones.

I think that the issue is that on threads like this it becomes almost a dangerous sport to even suggest that you might quite like Boris and Brexit. So people stay away because they get accused of being racist and liking Farage (which is NOT true) and it becomes unpleasant.

So instead of having reasoned debate it will just consist of all of you who agree with each other which is fine.

There aren't many newspapers which aren't right-wing, so if people follow newspapers (either a physical paper or online), the chances are that they do read a right-wing newspaper.

I've never seen evidence that Grandad doesn't respect other people's opinions, despite having very strong views.