Corbyn as caretaker

Jabberwok, I believe that very few members have actually left the forum in recent times. A considerable number have I feel changed their names for whatever reason best known to themselves.

In regard to disrespectful posts then I probably am in receipt of more than any other member of this forum should anyone care to look back.

The reason for that I will not enter into at this time, but it certainly has nothing to do with my politics or the manner of my posts.

So, GGMK3 your view is that we should Remain in the EU, exactly that same as my view. Where's the "nuance"?

This is a perfect explanation of why your views are seen as extreme. In your world the is only one version of Remain, and it is yours. No one else is allowed an opinion. This is just what we hear, in reverse, from Extreme Leavers, those who talk about a "pure" no-deal Brexit as the only Brexit. There are always other views Varian just the same as there are always exceedingly intolerant people holding extreme views.

Wow, no wonder some people don't post on here anymore! I think it is you who are reprehensible G.1943! Enough said!

Boosgran, so be it.

Grandad1943 what an unbelievable rude and insulting post. I’ve reported it and I hope they remove it.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Jura2 Quote [ How can we trust Corbyn, when he still refuses, even today- to state clearly what his intentions are re Brexit- as we suspect he still wants to leave, and still believes in his version of 'cake and eat + unicorns' on top kind of deal.] End Quote.

Jura2 with every respect but you have asked questions and requested information of me a number of times in the last few weeks/days. In your last request you asked me to outline the Labour party policy on Brexit and a second referendum which I did in my reply @13:36 today.

However, you have not even given me the dignity of replying directly to that post, rather you totally ignore the content of my reply to you and post what I consider "total rubbish" in regard to what the Labour Party has stated in regard to it's position on Brexit and a second refeuredum.

You Give in your post-@15:02 an article from the Times newspaper which is an extreme right wing publication which along with the Daily Mail and The sun are and always have been totally hostile to the entire organised Labour movement in the United Kindom.

The above begs the question jura2, why a question of a member of this forum, if you are not even prepared to acknowledge and "pick up" on what has been stated. Instead you seem to had already made your judgment prior to your request of me from "crap publications" such as the above.

So right jura

Thanks for your reply Grandad. Yes, conference, yes, we all know that. But things have changed massively since then- and there is no time to wait for next conference. We are on the edge of a disaster for the UK- so people, even Corbyn, have to adjust to the current situation ... but Mc Cluskey is holding him by the *****s. TBH, I am amazed to read you say you are not a LP member? More than amazed actually.

Very interesting article by Matthew Paris today in The Times - which I read on FB today. He puts into words my real fears about Corbyn's (McCluskey's) motivation and constantly muddying the waters. And he concludes.

'This columnist’s suspicion is that the bandits in temporary control of the Labour Party want Mr Johnson to crash Britain out of the EU, then crash his own premiership into the buffers of a general election. Mr Johnson appears to want this too. Parliament should beware of getting crushed in an eccentric embrace between a crank and a rascal, both trying to procrastinate.'

How can we trust Corbyn, when he still refuses, even today- to state clearly what his intentions are re Brexit- as we suspect he still wants to leave, and still believes in his version of 'cake and eat + unicorns' on top kind of deal.

Day6 orders me to "Kindly desist from posting end-of-the-world scenarios, mere personal 'forecasts' and your own opinions as truth. "

I do not think that brexit, even a no-deal brexit would mean "the end of the world" nor have I ever suggested such a thing, but it would certainly be the end of the United Kingdom as we have known it all our lives.

This is not just my own personal opinion. I could give you a very long list of people who share that opinion, from Harriet Harman MP, describing a no-deal brexit as "catastrophic" to NFU President Minette Batters calling it "armageddon" but I doubt any of the blinkered brextreemists would bother to read it.

Sir Oliver Letwin has ruled out supporting Jeremy Corbyn to become a caretaker Prime Minister in order to avoid no-deal Brexit.

The senior Tory MP said having Corbyn in charge would do more damage than leaving the EU without a deal would.

He did, however, back discussions across the Commons to prevent the UK leaving the bloc with no agreement.

www.cityam.com/tory-mp-oliver-letwin-rules-out-backing-jeremy-corbyn-to-be-caretaker-prime-minister/

Day 6- you accuse people of being rude, and you make comments like 'what arrogant and misleading tosh...'

how incredibly rude is that, Especially as she is clearly right.

Day6 : 'Look at the 'Brexit map after the referendum. '

yes, that was right after the Referendum. Things have changed considerbly since then. Many have now realised how fraudulent and mainipulated the vote was. But mainly, so many now realise, in those areas you mention - that it is those very areas that will suffer the most. The Cabinet have accepted that our industry and agriculture will be sacrificed - with all the jobs lost, and so much more. And the the NHS, instead of gettting more cash, is going to be sold cheap to Trump and co.

What of the above can't you get your head around?

So, GGMK3 your view is that we should Remain in the EU, exactly that same as my view. Where's the "nuance"?

Varian I don't think my views have changed particularly since we voted.

Poll causes confusion after finding that 2% of Brexit Party members would now vote to remain!

www.indy100.com/article/brexit-party-members-survation-poll-remain-leave-eu-referendum-9059276

I would just like to point out that you do exactly what you are accusing Varian of doing Day 6. You are behaving as anyone might expect to extremists to behave. And where does that get you, the country, or those discussing it on GN?

The recent EU elections showed more voters supporting Remain Parties Day6.

If you dislike the fact that I still believe we we should Remain in the EU, are you saying that most folk believe in what you call "arrogant and misleading tosh"?

whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/?removed

Most British people want to Remain in the EU

What arrogant and misleading tosh Varian

Kindly desist from posting end-of-the-world scenarios, mere personal 'forecasts' and your own opinions as truth.

Look at the 'Brexit map after the referendum. The Remain areas most definitely lost out to the areas voting to get out. The biggest party in the EU, after the recent elections, lest you forget, is the BREXIT PARTY.

Grandad, I'm familiar with employers' H&S responsibilities. However, if what you're reporting is more than harassment and bullying, they have a duty to report actual physical assault to the police. I can't understand why the person being assaulted wouldn't report it anyway, unless they had somehow provoked it. Brexiters are not usually slow in coming forward to accuse other people of victimising them.

GGMK3 When you say that your view as a remainer is more "nuanced" does that actually mean that you now think we should leave?

It is on one extreme Varian. Surely you can see that. You can argue in a very illiberal way that you are right and all other opinions are wrong. Simply saying There are no shades of Remain - Remainers simply want to stay in the EU comes across as extreme.

I voted remain but my view is considerably more nuanced than yours but you will not allow that. It is almost as if you want possession of "remain". People like me could be your allies but your view of the 'purity' of remains shuns any help you might get from others - unless they agree with your definition. I would call that pretty extreme and, as I say illiberal which would put many off the party too. If the Liberals are not careful they will find themselves in a lose/lose situation.

Your view and that of Extreme Brexiteers reminds me of all the wars fought over Protestantism and Catholicism. The two extremes currently fighting over the same county and what political stance is best and the old extremes fighting over the same God and how best to worship.

Where extremes continue to fight they always, it seems to me, end up destroying what they are fighting for. They are blind to any other point of view - Grandad's 'rabid', in fact.

jura2 Quote [A question for Grandad ' has JC committed, unequivocably, to a second Ref and fully 100% back Remain'?

(I do think I know the answer- but would like to hear from you, thanks)] End Quote.

jura2, the Labour party policy on Brexit was laid out and adopted by the Labour Movement Delegate Conference of last September. That policy was drawn up by the grassroots activists who attended that weeklong event. In that they stated that to seek a General Election must be the first priory for the parliamentary Labour Party, but should that not prove possible to bring about, then the parliamentary party should seek to bring about a second referendum.

The Parliamentary Party has sought to bring about that General Election continuously over the last eleven months and in that has upheld the Conference policy. However, Jeremy Corbyn has stated in recent weeks that should the Labour Party win the General Election so predicted by many now, the Labour party would seek to gain better terms for the Brexit withdrawal agreement from the European Union.

In those negotiations, Britain leaving with no deal would be taken off the table, and at the conclusion of those talks whatever the outcome be (either good or bad) would be placed before the British Electorate.

So, it would be for that electorate to decide if Britain should leave the European Union on the terms set out in any free trade and withdrawal agreement drawn up, or remain within the European Union on Britain's present terms.

Blimey, all the above questions to me in regard to Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party and I am not even a member of that party. It feels like I am still in the office where everyone seems to arrive at my desk with their problems. ??

Anyway, I hope no one will mind if I split the answers down into two or three posts. so, if I can take the growstuff and MaizieD queries of yesterday evening in regard to why the growing workplace attacks on those who have admitted in the past to being leave supporters is not being widely reported in the press.

For the answer to the above, you will have to reference the Health & Safety at work act 1973 and in that section three (Employers Duty of Care) and section eight (Employees Duty of care). The foregoing then links into the Equalities Act 2010 which encompasses the Fairness at Work Act 1996 and the Employment Rights act 1996.

Through the above acts can be seen the obligations placed on employers in regard to protecting employees from harassment and bullying which would include physical attacks by other employees. Also, under Employees duty of care, any worker who in the course of their employment duties endangers fellow workers or any other person in the vicinity of a workplace is subject to disciplinary procedure under gross misconduct.

Also within the above acts is legislation on how disciplinary procedures must be conducted by an employer against an employee. Minutes must be taken of all that is stated and the conclusions drawn and punishment(s) handed down (if any) at the termination of the hearings.

Obviously, in the above, an employer will be very keen to dismiss any employee who is found to have carried out a violent assault against a fellow employee. However, in the course of that action, an employer has to protect their business from claims by those who may have been assaulted in regard to not being adequately protected while attending his or her place of work (employers duty of care).

The minutes of disciplinary hearings cannot be released to anyone outside of a company due to the restrictions on organisations under the Data Protection Act 2018 and the European Union General Data Protection Regulations 2018.

In the above growstuff and Jura2, I hope you can see why employers and employees are unable to release details of workplace violence brought about by differences between employees in regard to Brexit. However, it is very much happening as my own company has advised several employers in recent months/weeks when such occurrences have taken place on their premises.

In that, employees dismissed for such workplace offences are just recorded by the employer as "dismissed from employment for reason of gross misconduct" and no one outside the company will be provided any other knowledge but the forgoing.

My position on brexit is not extreme. I simply believe we should remain in the EU, where we already benefit from a great deal, we are not in the Euro nor in Schengen and we have a rebate. We retain our voice, our vote and our veto and can work to improve the way the EU works for the mutual benefit of all 28 nations.

There are no shades of Remain - Remainers simply want to stay in the EU. There is nothing extreme about that. There is no division between what some chose to call "Extreme Remainers" and "Moderate Remainers". Some might be more vociferous than others or argue our case more strongly but we all want to remain- that's it.

Whereas we all recognise that there are many shades of Leave, from those who want a very "soft" brexit, remaining in the single market and customs union and retaining as many as possible of our present benefits whilst giving up our say in forming policies and regulations to those who advocate a "hard" brexit involving leaving with no deal and jumping off a cliff into the unknown. That has been the problem along.

Surely Varian, you can see that your position on Brexit is on one of the extremes. Also, perhaps you may remember the number of times you have cross-questioned, and perhaps you could admit to criticising, those who, while they do not want to leave, are prepared to leave the EU politically if that means they can keep much of the the economic, scientific and educational structures, etc.,

To win any political argument you almost always have to take the middle with you. At the moment the Extreme Leavers are carrying enough of the Moderate Leavers with them for them to be able to suggest they have a majority. They can do this because they are against the separate Extreme Remainers and the separate Moderate Remainers.

Being right will not win this. Knowing what you believe to be right but understanding others could do. If played with care, while Johnson bulldozers his way forward, we could have the Extreme Remainers, Moderate Remainers and Moderate Leavers working together.