Is Prince Andrew's protestation too little too late?

Bang on Annie!

He was never the sharpest knife in the box - my guess is he was advised not to continue his association with Epstein but chose to ignore it.

I recall reading he would order his protection officers to drive his friends home and if they objected he would lose his temper and become abusive.

I feel sorry for the Queen, she has dedicated her life to the country and has been let down by him.

paddyann the inferences in your posts are very unpleasant but I do realise that your hatred of the royals may colour the facts as you see them.

My friend met her DH at age 14 - no grooming, just stars in her eyes which in fact are still there 60 years later (he is a lovely man).
I think that can happen with many people and happened to HM. I doubt that Elizabeth saw much of Philip in the years from then because WW2 intervened.

It will all be covered up as usual. I cannot imagine what things are going to be like after the Queen dies. The respect is dwindling daily.

I'm no fan of the Royals, and agree that PA was stupid to carry on meeting Epstein after his conviction, but how much evidence is there that PA was actually involved in this sordid matter?

I'm not saying he wasn't, btw, but suggesting that until PA is brought to trial and convicted then he's innocent in law.

He's never going to be tried, or asked to testify, is he?

I suspect some GN members met their future husbands when they were very young, At an uncle's funeral recently my cousin said his parents met at primary school when they were both 9. Neither ever went out with anyone else, married at 22 and were happily married for over 60 years. Is that 'grooming'?

Many people have been brought together by friends or family members thinking they would get on well together or married someone they met through their parents because both sets of parents were close friends. Is that 'grooming'?

Is a blind date at 16 'grooming'?

On the other hand in all these examples if the couple had not got on they could just have walked away from each other.

Given the time(1930s) I can well see that if the monarch and family were visiting Dartmouth, the powers that be would appoint the most socially senior cadet to take the children round and if one of the children was at an inpressionable, just getting interested in boys age and their guide is a dish, then he will arouse interest.

I actually understood that there was considerable palace opposition to the heiress to the British throne marrying some tuppenny halfpenny princling with out money influence or even a country his family ruled over.

There was opposition to it M0nica and George VI made Elizabeth wait until she was 21 until they got engaged.
She is a strong and determined woman and was probably a girl who knew her own mind, certainly no hapless victim.

I think the main concern here is not that Andrew was actively involved in the abuse but that he must have been aware or at least suspect what was happening.

Remember, as has been said previously, he continued his friendship with Epstein even after he had served time for similar offences. Andrew would have seen young girls coming and going and even given his obvious lack of brainpower must have suspected something.

There was obviously some advantage for him to maintain the friendship (he has rarely been known to do something unless there was something in it for him)

Callistemon my mother went for a holiday to family when she was 14, was introduced to my father who was 16, they were allowed to go for a walk after chapel with his mother and her aunt walking behind them ?, they married six years
later so in love then and all their married life.

wicklow, the royal family survived after the abdication, after Margaret’s wild private life. Andrew is 8th in line so a minor royal. The future for the Windsors is William, Kate and their children .

Beckett he intended starting a business in America next year, Epstein handed over money for Fergie to pay her debts,
money ?

I think PA is just too coarse-grained to realise that there was a problem with continuing a friendship with someone who has been in prison for anything, let alone a sex crime.

I also think that he probably was too coarse-grained and unobservant to really take on board that some of the girls he met might not be legally of age in the jurisdiction he was in.

Lets face it the emotional intelligence of a lot of men is not that high,

Anniebach - I suspect you are right. Epstein had the kudos of being on friendly terms with a prince and Andrew's business venture would receive financial backing. As I said he rarely does anything unless there is something in it for him.

Both he and his ex-wife have milked their connections for all they are worth.

Agree Monica and Beckett

France is now involved, French citizens in America?

Epstein’s contacts ? what more useful for setting up a business, it wasn’t going to be a hamburger stall was it ?

William and Kate’s engagement 2010, down the line goes Andrew . Charles refused to allow Andrews daughters to take on royal duties ! Andrew was once second in line to the throne , bump down he goes.

Edward is already involved with The Duke of Edinburgh Awards and will become Duke of Edinburgh, Sophie Duchess of Edinburgh, Fergie is not accepted yet she and Andrew are living together, why not America, they would be ROYALS there .

If Andrew did have a dalliance with a 17 year old would he check the age of consent ?

I agree MOnica, PA was probably too arrogant to listen to advice about ending his friendship with Epstein, I think we have to assume that palace officials will have read the news and spoken to him about the matter. Last night's statement about not knowing what was going on was pathetic, even if Andrew was not involved in any of the sordid and illegal activities himself, he certainly knew about it as he continued to socialise with Epstein after his conviction. But, Andrew will not go into a courtroom, people like him don't, but this may have put the tin lid on any future get rich quick and sell your royal connections business plans in America, even with the reptile Trump as President.

Annibach, I agree with you about William and Kate, I just wish they could follow the Queen instead of Charles and Camilla. I don't think they will be so popular.

wicklow , if/when Charles becomes King ,William and Kate
will be very much to the fore. Charles has slimmed down the numbers already. If Harry calms down and Megan learns her role in the firm, it will work . Think how popular Charles and
Diana were ,at the start, the Queen still had the respect of many . Charles has a life time of learning what works and what doesn’t. He had training by the Queen Mother just as the
Queen was prepared for her role by her grandmother Queen Mary.
And Kate has already learned and accepted her role, support for William, doesn’t push herself.

I thought the Royal Family had advisors. Where were they with regard to this? I don't know if Prince Andrew has done anything wrong or not, but he and his now ex-wife have either made poor choices or been badly advised. I feel very sorry for the queen, she is a conscientous and hardworking Monarch and this must be awful for her, as it would be for any mother.

You are right they have advisors, but they only advise. If the people they advise choose to ignore them there is not much they can do,

I think two children who meet at 9 are very different from a 13 year old being introduced to an adult of 18 or 19 who has the intention of marrying her .Maybe you would all be happy for a 19 year old to write to or nowadays msg /text your 13 year old GD ?
The documentary on TV this evening confirmed what I said earlier .Mountbatten was obsessed with getting his nephew's family on the throne and he succeeded .The footage shown of a very young looking 13 year old and a man in his late teens is quite creepy .But hey ..if you all believe it was the great love story of the 20th century who am I to set you straight /
Mountbatten saw himself as a kingmaker and was delighted when the family changed its name to Mountbatten Windsor ...he changed his crest to that too .Murky stuff!

True Monica,

every generation has had its problems, the press remained silent, now they dont just report they print ‘sources close to said’.

I am always baffled by comments from the public on Margaret . ‘She had an unhappy life because she couldn’t marry the love of her life ‘, tosh. She lived a hedonistic life .

Is it a 2nd child thing in the Windsors ?

Not really, Annie. George V's second child was the best of the lot.

paddyann you would say the queen going to the loo was murky.

I agree , who are you to think you could set us straight?

merlot, yes he wasn’t wild but when the stirrings of Edward
abdicating began it cause panic, Bertie wasn’t considered suitable to be king. He too entered an arrange marriage.

I am sure many a 19 year old has met a 13 year old in the most respectable of circumstances and been drawn to them. It is what happens next that matter. If nothing is done or said beyond keeping in contact with the family until the girl involved is at an age when a relationship is considered acceptable, I cannot see where any problem lies. If a 19 year old starts sexually grooming a 13 year old that is very different.

I have friends who were naval officers and they can tell you just how difficult it was to keep any kind of relationship going when you are away at sea for months at a time in an age before the internet and mobile phones.

^Paddyann* it is one thing to be a republican, another entirely to assume that every action of someone royal is immoral, illegal or aimed at transgressing the law.

I was 14 or 15 when I met my first boyfriend, he was 16 /17 I think. We remained an item well sort of, -at a distance until I was 18 and went to university (with a couple of “local” dalliances on my part )
I can well imagine the young Elizabeth fell for this blonde Greek god!