The French - is it personal?

dragonfly we used to get together with DH's colleagues and wives many years ago and I thought I'd make the wife of the Parisian colleague feel welcome by speaking French to her. However, her husband said very emphatically 'no, no, no, she wishes to speak English, so just English please'!

Another friend was a translator, his German wife used to have to ask him to remind her what the German word was for certain things as she'd forgotten but he was still fluent.
We have translators in our family too, one said to me that perhaps she found learning French easy because of our French background and she wondered if it is in our genes .
I've forgotten most of the language from not using it.

Like all nations, there are the lovely and helpful, some not so.
People are fine, politics apart.

Yes politely, with a smile and friendly, firm manner. Until you do speal the local languague well- then they can practise their English to their heart's content. That is the right way round - the immigrant learns the local language first.

I lived in Spain for many years. I ended up speaking fluent Spanish.

I have been in shops and bars where the British have bravely attempted the language. Sometimes it's just a lot quicker and easier for English to be spoken

That reply was for Becket- posts crossed.

I know many UK and USA people who have lived all over the EU and Switzerland who can barely put a simple sentence together even after living and working there for years- even decades. And still do the 'you didn't get this- so I will shout a bit louder and more slowly until you do'. So arrogant and rude.

That is surely a cliché

jura I am not disputing some ex pats don't try to speak the local language (although I find this is less common these days and the "shout a bit louder" attitude doesn't happen often). I found by allowing them to speak to me in English they were much friendlier and helpful towards me because I was being helpful and friendly towards them.

I think the attitude "I must learn your language before I allow you to speak to me in mine" is somewhat arrogant. Surely it should be a bit of give and take - on many occasions I would speak Spanish and they would reply in English, if one of us made a mistake the other would gently point it out.

One could be forgiven for not knowing which language to use in Switzerland.

I hope you will attempt to learn Welsh should you decide to visit Wales, jura!

Yes Polnan, it was all about trade!!!! And we have been conned for years ever since.

Beckett 'I think the attitude "I must learn your language before I allow you to speak to me in mine" is somewhat arrogant. Surely it should be a bit of give and take - on many occasions I would speak Spanish and they would reply in English, if one of us made a mistake the other would gently point it out.'

yes, I understand. My comment was from experience of so many anglo-saxons over the world who do expect everyone to speak English. The number of times too when I've read of expat forums 'had to call the plumber, and he did not even speak English properly', etc, etc.

Most people would actually truly respect the 'please help me, I really want to learn the language of the country I am living in now'. This is what OH did when we arrived here 10 years ago- and he has won the respect and friendship of so many people in doing so. Currently I am teaching English to several youngsters who need English for their professional progression, on an exchange basis (they do jobs for us in exchange) and OH is very happy to let them practise on him. But it is about the basic attitude. To expect everyone else in the world to speak English is arrogant, and breeds resentment and disrespect too'. And NO it is not a cliché - I have seen it again and again.

Callistemon, I try to learn a few basic sentences in every country we travel- people really do like you to try. For a week or two, just basic 'please and thank you', Good Morning, Good night, and add a few as you go along, asking locals to help you with pronunciation. I still remember a bit of arabic and swahili and that was many years ago.

If I visited Wales for 1 week or 2, I would certainly learn the basic as above, and add as I go along. We nearly did go and live in Wales in mid 70s - and I can assure you I would have made the effort to learn, and fast. It is just about respect.

Jura I find your comment unnecessary. I do speak fluent Dutch, can read in it and think in it.
It was not necessary to insist all the time that people spoke Dutch to me. My children went to Dutch schools and I constantly had Dutch friends in my house.

The point I was trying to make was that many Europeans want to speak English rather than you speak in their language and I found it rude to insist they spoke to me in Dutch all the time. They do not regard it as lazy on our part.

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree on that one. If you want to learn a language fast and effectively, full as possible immersion is the best way. And the basic principle that the foreigner in any country should be the one to learn the language as a priority, makes total sense. Never ever met anyone who did not respect and accept my friendly request, anywhere. Will be in Italy next 2 weeks - and the same will apply.

Callistemon: 'One could be forgiven for not knowing which language to use in Switzerland.'

it is very very simple actually - you learn the language of the area where you live. All expats I know here are perfectly aware of this simple reality. Some learn, most don't. Most work for multinational companies, in an expat bubble, kids in private English schools, barely meet anyone outside. And yes, I'm afraid, the local do find it lazy and arrogant too. There are some brilliant and notable exceptions to that rule, of course.

I taught German and French in a English secondary school. One very frequent comment from parents whose children did not enjoy German/French was ”why does he/she have to learn it? They are never going to use it.”

Learning a foreign language teaches you much more than just the language. Geography, history and cultural issues are all embedded in language. We also begin to look at our own language when we study a foreign one and that to me is another very important point. I must say that I am surprised at the poor command many Brits have of their own language.

Of course, in a British school we can't teach every language but since we are European we should be able to manage German/French or Spanish. Also, I think a foreign language should be compulsory at 6th form. If students have gained grades that are high enough for tertiary education they are bright enough to learn a foreign language.

hear hear

Used to teach French and German- in the end mainly at A'Level. We 'lost' so many brilliant linguists, who would have loved to continue wot A'Level, but were told they had to concentrate on getting 3 As in sciences to go on to do Vet/medicine. Having at least one A'Level in a foreign language would have opened so many other doors to them.

Agree language learning is not just about being able to order a drink in a bar. You learn so much about culture and history, not to mention it’s one of the best ways of keeping your brain active. Children who are bilingual are at an advantage in cognitive skills. I think it’s the expectation that everyone else can learn English so we can’t be bothered.

jura best to learn the road signs, although you could call them a work in progress and end up a one way street!
You might enjoy these:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7702913.stm
www.cyclingwales.co.uk/badlytranslated.html

I'm not sure that it is the expectation rather than other nationalities being keen to learn English which is quite widely spoken and is the language of business.
Hence the huge number of English language colleges around the world teaching English to eager students.

There is more progress in teaching foreign languages in British schools but not enough so far.

What progress has been made teaching foreign languages in UK schools?

The number of pupils taking GCSE and A level languages is in free fall.

French and German were sometimes but not always taught hears ago now French, German, Spanish, Russian and Mandarin are offered in quite a number of schools, plus, of course, the obligatory Welsh in Wales.

It's worrying if pupils are not taking up the options.

Only a tiny percentage of pupils learn Russian and Mandarin. Quite honestly, they're offered as vanity projects by a handful of schools.

Look at the stats. German has almost collapsed in some areas and isn't offered in any schools. The numbers taking exams have plummeted. Foreign languages in schools are in a more precarious state than they have been since the early 1980s.

University departments are closing because they don't have enough candidates.

I wonder why.
Lack of teachers?
DGN teaches Mandarin in a London state school.

Very interesting topic, but perhaps for another thread and go back to OP?

I agree it's interesting. There are numerous reasons, Callistemon, but this is way off-topic.

Growstuff, you are absolutely correct, learning a language in schools has absolutely plummeted. My DH, an ex Latin and French teacher, thinks it’s because there are both easier options available and more ‘trendy’ options. This has been compounded by the difficulty that schools have in recruiting properly qualified modern language teachers, and of course Latin teachers are virtually extinct. As fewer students take languages to GCSE standard, let alone to A level standard, so fewer places to study languages are necessary in universities, and this results in fewer qualified language teachers.
What are the reasons, it’s simple, language learning is academic and taxing, students prefer easier options. And easier options are available. Anyone fancy studying for a degree, why not Beckham Studies, or the much maligned Media Studies, or why not Legal Studies rather than the much more difficult Law.