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NO DEAL is the only way. The EU 'wrote' the WA Agreement.

(306 Posts)
Day6 Sun 01-Sept-19 17:11:59

and it ties us to the EU indefinitely.

The Irish backstop could be the least of our worries.

May's WA must be rejected completely. It is an incredibly complicated document leaving hardly a subject not covered, and everything in it has been designed to be beneficial to the EU.

I doubt if any MP has read it from cover to cover. Nearly every paragraph is cross-referenced to a Treaty, Regulation or Directive, and each one has to be looked up, read and understood before moving on. It takes hours.

So says John Ashworth in his article This EU-written Withdrawal Agreement is toxic from start to finish

www.conservativewoman.co.uk/this-eu-written-withdrawal-agreement-is-toxic-from-start-to-finish/

It is a very revealing article, written by someone who has made an effort to link the words to the many treaties, acts and sub-paragraphs which determine the UK's role after a decidedly dodgy exit (or non-exit as it transpires) from the EU.

It is very worrying.

He concludes

During any transition period, we would not be classified as a ‘third country’, so although technically one could claim that we had left the EU, in practical terms, we *wouldn’t have done so – rather the opposite*

We would effectively be controlled by the EU to such a degree that we might just as well shut our Parliament down

We would finally become a ‘third country’ on 1 January 2023, as it is doubtful that the EU would consider an extension other than on the previous transition terms, which would essentially mean that we would still not have left the EU in any meaningful way

We would still be paying our ongoing fees, at full rate, to the EU. The EU would still control our fisheries and our armed forces and we would still be subject to the European Court of Justice, with our Parliament still essentially sidelined. No one in their right minds could want us to be in such a situation

We do not want Brexit in name only (BRINO) which is what the WA will give us, if our only request is the dropping of the backstop.

Boris, must be careful. May's WA is a non-starter. Farage, in waiting, understands that the WA has to be rejected - in full.

Firecracker123 Mon 09-Sept-19 16:41:22

Calm down dear, we know all this.

Chestnut Mon 09-Sept-19 16:41:15

No need to be rude Whitewavemark2. I haven't read your previous comments and I imagine many millions of other people haven't either. We are not hanging on your every word.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 09-Sept-19 16:31:46

The reason the courts can’t do anything about the referendum vote is because it is ONLY ADVISORY AND ONE OF THE PARTICIPANTS HAS BE FOUND GUILTY OF FRAUD.

We keep banging on about it but it just never seems to sink in
Dear oh dear

varian Mon 09-Sept-19 16:29:50

Latest poll from ComRes-
Con 31%
Lab 27%
LibDem 20%
Brexit 13%
Green 3%

www.comresglobal.com/polls/britain-elects-voting-intention-election-scenarios-and-brexit-polling-september-2019/

Firecracker123 Mon 09-Sept-19 16:24:12

Chestnut yes seems the courts can do anything but let us leave the EU.

Chestnut Mon 09-Sept-19 16:18:24

If the court can force Boris to ask for an extension then why can’t they force MPs to abide by the leave result that 17.4 million people voted for in a democratic referendum?

MaizieD Mon 09-Sept-19 12:33:55

It seems Boris Boris is reportedly planning to sabotage the Remainer plan to stop a no deal Brexit by sending a letter to the EU requesting an extension, as the new law requires - then in another missive, explaining why they should ignore it.

A legal opinion of Johnson's 'cunning plan'

Jolyon Maughm QC
Completely baffled that debate about Boris 'Two Letters' Johnson's evil masterplan is continuing. There are two complete answers to it. First, the law is not so stupid that whilst requiring you to do x it will at the same time allow you to do y which undermines x.

Second, the whole idea rests on the predicate that the EU doesn't know Boris 'Two Letters' Johnson's views on an extension and will, once it learns them, aghast, change its mind on the wisdom of granting one. That predicate only needs to be stated to be dismissed as ridiculous.

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1171017020944670721

Chestnut Mon 09-Sept-19 11:10:23

It seems the EU won't approve an extension anyway, so they'll be happy to comply with the second letter. I'm sure they're as fed up with this as we are. The whole idea of another extension is just embarrassing as we already look like utter fools for not sorting this out by March when we were supposed to leave.

Firecracker123 Mon 09-Sept-19 08:24:43

No wonder Boris is riding high in the polls at 35%. Don't you just love Dominic Cummings ?

Urmstongran Mon 09-Sept-19 07:46:52

It seems Boris Boris is reportedly planning to sabotage the Remainer plan to stop a no deal Brexit by sending a letter to the EU requesting an extension, as the new law requires - then in another missive, explaining why they should ignore it.

Clever.

It complies with the law.

But then adds that twist - afterwards.

'There is a prescribed letter that has to be sent...Does that stop the Prime Minister sending other documents to the EU? I don't think it does.

'A political explainer perhaps, as to where the Government's policy is. It has to make clear that the Government is asking for an extension, but let's not forget what the next step is.

'Once that is done, the Europeans are going to ask: 'Why? What is the reason? [What] if the government said: 'We don't have any reasons for an extension.

'There is a clear path now: the Europeans need to refuse an extension.'

growstuff Mon 09-Sept-19 00:10:10

No, your claim was that people still want to leave. 66 polls suggest you are wrong.

Where's your evidence that people still want leave?

Chestnut Sun 08-Sept-19 23:53:10

have you found anything to back up your claim that the majority of people want to leave?

The referendum result! We had the referendum and people were very clearly told what it meant to leave in that leaflet we paid for. They voted to leave. Unfortunately the sore losers won't accept the result. And no matter how many times the leave vote wins they still won't accept it.

EnglishRose Sun 08-Sept-19 18:21:55

growstuff...the Polls lie. They were wrong about the last GE and also the Referendum and have been proven to be ridiculously off centre for many years.

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 18:16:49

No, we won't because people aren't being allowed a second referendum.

Anyway, have you found anything to back up your claim that the majority of people want to leave?

Chestnut Sun 08-Sept-19 16:15:20

growstuff, I guess we'll see the answer to that when the people actually get a vote. wink

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 15:42:43

The party doesn't necessarily indicate whether people would vote leave or remain. Parties have other policies (and people), which might trump somebody's feelings about the EU.

The results of 66 polls have shown a shift towards remaining. Are they really all wrong?

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 15:40:23

Where's your evidence Chetsnut? 66 polls suggest that you are wrong.

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 15:39:28

NatCen Social Research

Results from 66 polls.

The question asked was: Should the UK remain a member of the EU, or leave the EU? (Asked after the referendum)

whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/#

Chestnut Sun 08-Sept-19 15:33:50

MaizieD this poll shows that 47% support leaving and 40% support remaining. The party they vote for indicates this.

MaizieD Sun 08-Sept-19 15:17:11

Those aren't the polls I was referring to, Chestnut. I'm talking about the ones that ask whether we should remain in or leave the EU. Which have consistently come out in favour of remain over the past 2 years.

Chestnut Sun 08-Sept-19 15:00:40

MaizieD the latest poll shows Tories/Boris+Brexit Party on 47% and Labour+LibDems on 40% so this shows some evidence of the latest swing.

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 14:19:58

Exactly newnanny! That's exactly what the UK will do. Lower taxes might attract foreign investment, but there will be less to spend on education, healthcare, pensions, infrastructure, social support etc, etc.

MaizieD Sun 08-Sept-19 14:09:17

You will see what most people want when it's time to vote.

And until such time neither you nor I can say with any certainty 'what most people want' (apart from the fact that polling over the last 2 years supports me rather than you, Chestnut)

Chestnut Sun 08-Sept-19 14:03:11

You will see what most people want when it's time to vote. Although it doesn't seem to matter what most people want does it?

MaizieD Sun 08-Sept-19 12:43:39

Well, most of the people I know don't want to leave the EU at all. Does that trump Chestnut's statement?