If there is an election.....

I'm not entirely sure how the people who invaded and pillaged what we refer to as the USA are in way relevant to the UK in the 21st first century.

More thanks EnglishRose!

Happy Anniversary URM and well said.

Well I thought it was brilliant!

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Thank you Pantsglas1

45 years ago, we’d been married for 3 hours ....

Oops! Wrong thread :-(

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Au contraire MaizieD - in my opinion, of course.

Non sequitur, Pantglasl

And quite frankly, if you look at how the US has turned out it's not really a shining example to follow.

Ironic that Labour Party leaflets arriving on doormats throughout Britain today....contain the phrase " we demand an election now"

Well that’s set cat amongst the pigeons Urmstongran well done and happy anniversary

Love this:

‘What country in its right mind would want to leave the world’s largest trading block and risk financial ruin by going it alone without a deal?

What country, attempting to hold together a union of disparate political entities, would risk that union when many of its inhabitants do not support the break-up in the first place?

What country’s leaders would be prepared to take a reckless leap into the unknown in the illusory hope of a brighter, more prosperous future, free from outside interference?

The answer, of course, is the United States in 1776. They must have been insane.’

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Well I’ve read the views of those experts I quoted to Dinahmo

Very interesting!

The problem we had in 2016 and still have is how to provide factual unbiased information to people who have been brainwashed for years into believing lies, and actually getting them not to reject factual information in favour of parroting the slogans and mantras which have been drilled into them.

In a nutshell Varian.

There are experts on both sides of the Brexit debate remember

That would be fine if people listened to experts UG, but all too often they are listening to politicians who are plainly not expert.

Urmston - hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Or Dinahmo you could have mentioned Mervyn King ex BoE Governor, Lord Trimble who negotiated the GFA or Jeremy Corbyn ....
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Urm Yes there are experts on the Brexit side such as Mark Francois, Tim Martin and Digby Jones. Extremely expert - not!

Piketty was a member of the LP's Economic Advisory Committee - appointed in September 2015 and resigned in June 2016. Most of the supposed taxation plans were included in a paper written by George Monbiot and others because the LP asked them to come up with suggestions for future taxation. They have not been adopted by the Labour Party.

The only decisions made by the LP regarding personal taxation are to be found on their manifesto:

1. No tax increases for those earning over £80,000
2. No increases in personal NI contributions
3. No increase in the rate of VAT

There are experts on both sides of the Brexit debate remember!

The problem we had in 2016 and still have is how to provide factual unbiased information to people who have been brainwashed for years into believing lies, and actually getting them not to reject factual information in favour of parroting the slogans and mantras which have been drilled into them.

So I’m adding ‘obsessed’ now to my charms?
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It was merely an observation how equally clever people (whatever their background) do not vote ‘en masse’ for the same things.

Those whose lives are based on misplaced optimism are occasionally mentally ill or more often simply lack the knowledge to reach any other conclusion UG.

It is nothing to do with intelligence UG. Although you seem a little obsessed with it. Knowledge is the key. If you are telling me that two equally intelligent people, one who is a physicist and one who has studied EU law all his academic life do not agree then who would you be more likely go listen to?

The problem with those with very little knowledge is that they feel they must have an opinion so it the becomes about prejudice not knowledge. It's called the Dunning-Kruger effect. What these psychologists found was:

... that people with substantial, measurable deficits in their knowledge or expertise lack the ability to recognize those deficits and, therefore, despite potentially making error after error, tend to think they are performing competently when they are not

What they also found was that when people gain some knowledge then begin to understand how little they know and search for more knowledge. When everybody went on about people being "less educated" they missed the point. Before asking "the people" to make a choice we should have ensured that a much unbiased knowledge about the possible outcomes and the workings of the EU were available to as many people as possible.

... something they would have never ever considered in the past.

We have so many friends and family who are and have always been Tories. None of them would accept an alliance with Farage, NONE- and would be totally appalled. I imagine they will either not vote, or vote for Lib Dems.

Not an optimist are you GGmk3!! Some people (even some experts believe it or not) see Brexit as an OPPORTUNITY to grasp with both hands in the expectation that things will not only ‘be fine’ but WORTHWHILE!

Now there’s a positive thought for a Saturday morning.
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