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If there is an election.....

(263 Posts)
AllTheLs Tue 03-Sept-19 11:08:56

Who do people vote for?

Remainers will be split between the LibDems and Labour, so neither party will win.

Leavers will be split between the Tories and the Brexit Party, so ditto.

It may be a well and truly Hung Parliament.

Very interesting times indeed.

varian Tue 10-Sept-19 20:08:23

Downing Street has seen polling which suggests Boris Johnson would not win an election outright, according to a senior Tory adviser who lost his job at the weekend.

Polling and modelling discussed by senior Number 10 figures suggests the Tories would win about 295 to 300 seats in an election.

This is short of the 325 needed for an outright majority, and would likely mean more gridlock and uncertainty in parliament.

news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-would-not-win-an-election-outright-polling-seen-by-no-10-suggests-11805584

Remember we have not officially started on the GE campaign yet so who knows how that could change?

TM was 20% ahead when she kicked off the 2017 GE.

growstuff Tue 10-Sept-19 11:50:24

This Lord Blackheath bloke has form!

In a blog post, he claims that the Queen will be deposed if the UK doesn't leave the EU.

It really is a bit pathetic what lies people will tell and how low they will stoop to try and get their own way.

graykat Tue 10-Sept-19 11:44:09

Murdoch, Trump, Putin, Barclay brothers, all gagging for no deal Brexit. Doesn't it make you question why?

growstuff Tue 10-Sept-19 11:38:40

This is a copy/paste from Hansard. This is what he actually said ....

"Is it really true that the Government have entered into private agreements with the European Community that they will, on completion of remain or whatever it is to be, transfer to the European Union in Brussels the entire control of our entire fighting forces, including all their equipment? [Laughter.] Noble Lords may jest, but it has been done and they should check it out. It is too important to ignore. We must know the truth of this. We must have it clear for the whole public to know. I believe it is true, and I think we should be told. I understand that it is intended that the oath of every serving member of our forces will be cancelled and they will be required to undertake a new oath of loyalty to Brussels. I understand that in recent months, we have had a series of people sent from our Armed Forces to create and install the command and control centres to be used for the control of our troops once we have ceased to have any control over their use, application or deployment. It goes beyond this. They are to take control of our intelligence services, the whole core of Five Eyes. They will have MI6 and the Cheltenham monitoring centre, and we will be completely excluded from it under the new arrangements and have no access either to the—"

Quite honestly, the man seems somewhat demented and it's been tweeted by the alt-right loony tunes because they obviously believe the public is gullible and stupid.

growstuff Tue 10-Sept-19 11:34:36

Yes, I've seen it. And, for the third time, what he said was "I believe it is intended blah blah". In other words, he doesn't know. Maybe he does genuinely believe, but that's not the same as saying it's true. It really isn't that difficult to understand.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 10-Sept-19 10:52:55

Well it is the video of the speech in the House of Lords?

humptydumpty Tue 10-Sept-19 10:46:00

ah twitter, that fount of all things factual

GrannyGravy13 Tue 10-Sept-19 10:39:03

growstuff the clip has been all over twitter for the last four days.

growstuff Tue 10-Sept-19 10:16:53

You are the one spreading lies. I have no idea where you found your quote - some right-wing website I guess. The quote has been redacted to give it an entirely different meaning.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 10-Sept-19 09:51:19

I watched the video on the internet.

I think you will find it is those who voted remain that have been "fear mongering" for the last three years.

growstuff Tue 10-Sept-19 09:40:37

GrannyGravy I have just Googled him and found the Hansard Report and video of what he actually said.

What he actually said was "*I believe* it is intended....." He doesn't know and is fear-mongering.

There is no intention to make our armed forces swear an oath to a European Army and you are spreading lies.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 10-Sept-19 09:37:12

GracesGranMK3

I assume you are “alluding” to
“Foundation X” and “Fed Fraud” speeches made in 2010 and 2012 respectively.

I suggest you read up on the things he has achieved.

GracesGranMK3 Tue 10-Sept-19 09:25:04

GG13 I am always stunned that brains works in such different ways.

Did you look up a background to Lord James? Do you check your source before believing what you want to believe. He seems to be a great believer in weird an wonderful conspiracy theories. Most of the reports of his speeches treat him as a laughing stock and, having read them, so would I.

Grandad1943 Tue 10-Sept-19 09:17:33

GrannyGravy13, none of the opposition parties in the House of Commons are going to agree to a General Election being held until Johnsons requests the European Union for an extension to the October 31st deadline.

He will also have to set the date of the General Election for beyond the end of October as well.

Reason for the above, no one trusts him being that he is a compulsive liar.

Simple as that.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 10-Sept-19 09:00:24

More proof (if needed) that Jeremy Corbyn is a coward and liar!!!, The bill got Royal Assent and he still is running as fast as he can away from a General Election.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 10-Sept-19 08:54:58

Google Lord James Blackheath addressing the House of Lords

“It is intended the oath of every serving member of our armed forces will be cancelled, and they will be required to undertake a new oath of loyalty to Brussels”

growstuff Tue 10-Sept-19 08:09:07

Do you have a problem with NATO? If not, why do you have a problem with the same arrangement, but controlled by and more focused on European needs?

growstuff Tue 10-Sept-19 06:52:57

What did Merkel ACTUALLY say?

I agree that some information on the Internet is rubbish. In fact, some of it is deliberately intended to deceive, which is why I try to choose my links carefully.

I'd be very interested in a link to a video of what Merkel actually said. I read the German press regularly and it really isn't what's being reported.

Lyndiloo Tue 10-Sept-19 01:50:26

Growstuff I think you have misunderstood my comment about Angela Merkel saying that there was going to be a European Army. I didn't just 'see' news of this on the Internet, I actually saw Merkel herself announcing it. (Unless it was a 'look-alike'?) smile

And you will see from my post that I'm very sceptical about information on the Internet. Whereas you obviously believe the two links that you included in your post ...?

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 22:59:48

Where the heck do you get your information EnglishRose? Your links proved absolutely nothing.

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 22:58:08

Thank you, MOnika and Labaik. It's reassuring to know that there are sensible people out there.

M0nica Sun 08-Sept-19 20:09:31

The voice of reason!

Labaik Sun 08-Sept-19 19:24:20

I won't paste the whole article as it's huge but this is the conclusion to a question about a EU army
Conclusions

Plans can always change. But the recent Commission plans, and the EU summit declaration, don’t amount to an EU army. And if there’s no EU army, the UK can’t veto one. It’s arguable whether a veto threat is a good negotiating strategy; but it’s indisputable that an empty threat is simply ridiculous.

A more rational approach to the issue would be to acknowledge (as a number of calmer voices on the Leave side have advocated) that the UK and the EU might well benefit mutually from continued defence and foreign policy cooperation after Brexit. In that light, the best way for the UK to spend its remaining time as an EU Member State as regards defence issues is to offer constructive criticism of the EU plans – and align that with sensible proposals for how post-Brexit EU/UK cooperation could go forward in this field.

M0nica Sun 08-Sept-19 19:22:49

Surely a European army is the same as we mean when we talk about NATO or UN forces taking joint action somewhere, Bosnia, for example. It is not taking control of each nations army and running it from Brussels. I cannot think of any EU member that would be happy about that.

What it does mean is very close co-operation between armies and when the EU as a whole agrees that they need to be involved in any action requiring military involvment - and more and more such actions are humanitarian - as for example the aid currently going to the Bahamas. The joint command would decide which EU units would be best to use. This is normally done by working out what forces are needed and liaising with EU members about who can best behind them.

In other words exactly what is currently happening in Bosnia at the moment, where the EU peace keeping force(EUFOR) took over from NATO in 2005. There are currently British soldiers serving in Bosnia wearing EUFORS badges as their badge of identity, alongside soldiers from other EU countries doing exactly the same thing.

I think the idea is eminently sensible. Why should it not be?

Labaik Sun 08-Sept-19 19:17:26

This is from Full Facts
All EU members have to adopt the Euro after 2020.
Conclusion
Incorrect. The UK and Denmark have opt-outs so don’t have to join the Euro. The seven countries without an opt-out and not already in the Euro are supposed to join it, but only once they meet certain conditions. There is currently no time limit on this process.