Boris has lost the vote!

growstuff
So, if BJ &co had got their plans through then that would be okay because they were democratically elected and looking out for the welfare of the whole country? That must be the case mustn’t it, because you agree that they are charged with making rules on our behalf. Or is that only when it suits your agenda?
The government’s recent actions were tested in court on more than one occasion and found to be legal.

Am I the only one to find Boris’ comment to Corbyn about being ‘ A big girl’s blouse’ objectionable? He may be rattled but I don’t expect a British Prime Minister to resort to the language of the playground.

Well said, Growstuff and Carly.

It's not a naïve perception. It's how our parliamentary democracy has worked for centuries.

We live in a Parliamentary Democracy - which means we give parliament (which we have voted in) the right to make rules on our behalf. Parliament is looking out for the welfare of the whole country

A somewhat naive perception. Its like believing the wolf in grandmas bed in Hansel and Gretel is really Grandma.

I wish people who clearly don't understand democracy would stop whining on about it. We live in a Parliamentary Democracy - which means we give parliament (which we have voted in) the right to make rules on our behalf. Parliament is looking out for the welfare of the whole country - hence they are not willing to take the risk of a No Deal Brexit and that's the responsible thing to do. (And, incidentally, I don't remember a no deal brexit being talked about during the referendum campaign - oh no; it was all about the sweet deal we were going to get oh so easily; how we'd have all the advantages of EU trade without any of the responsibilities - like paying money in; so, basically, we were lied to by a group of fantasists).

There are other options Day6 it is this kind of binary thinking that has held negotiations back

OK, so name the ones beneficial to the UK given the time frame and EU intransigence?

Yet more delay was not in our interests, and we were much more likely to get a deal to suit us both with No Deal one of our options.

Basically we are playing poker with the EU (and the UK's future) by showing our hand throughout. Brussels has us by the short and curlies once again and that's how Remainer MPs seem to like it.

It's pathetic.

There are other options Day6 it is this kind of binary thinking that has held negotiations back.

Exactly Joelsnan

What is under discussion is the Withdrawal Agreement which is different and is about control and funding etc

And that WA was rejected, three times. The EU has refused to make amendments.

The WA that exists ties us to the EU and is so convoluted and bound up with references to past treaties, declarations, regulations etc, which are cross-referenced to other acts, clauses, sub clauses, etc, etc that it is impossible almost to see where any freedom from the EU exists.

The EU has also said that the period of transition will end in 2020 (?) which, given we took almost three years to compile (dreadful) withdrawal terms, gives us no time at all to make amendments which are advantageous to the UK, rather than the EU. Unless that period of transition is also extended the EU has us over a barrel - still.

Parliament last night more of less decided it was OK to push the UK into an even tighter corner, at the mercy of the EU.

Do Remainer MPs value the UK at all? Their no deal/delay vote makes us look cheap, helpless and begging for EU mercy, which we will continue to pay BILLIONS for.

You have it in one Joelnan ?

And the reason Johnson can’t negotiate the WA is?
Because the plutocrats are pulling the strings

Politicians are meant to go along with "their whip" they had been warned prior to the vote of the consequences, at least Boris has stuck to his word on this issue!

And the reason Johnson can’t negotiate the WA is?

Yes Gb is a laughing stock. My German friends say they rule Europe.

Well said Joelsnan that is indeed the case!

Someone just tweeted, it was an utterly shitty way for Johnson to treat someone who has served his party for 37 years.

It was like watching an old bull elephant staggering into the forest to die.

It shows Boris has balls lol

Surely we have been told time and again that a ‘deal’ cannot be discussed until we actually leave the union.
What is under discussion is the Withdrawal Agreement which is different and is about control and funding etc.
Countries who have never been in the union go straight to trade deals and most end up with free trade deals without the weighted snakes and ladders game being foisted upon UK by EU wrapped up as a withdrawal agreement.
So it is not a case of leaving with no deal as there will be no deal until we leave.

Joelsnan it is just ironic that Johnson, who likes to think of himself as a Churchillian figure has now fired his hero's grandson. Not too keen on either Churchill or Soames myself, but it does show just how out of control Johnson is now.

Nanny41 the vote was to stop us leaving with no deal not to stop us leaving ???

What’s being Churchill’s grandson got to do with it?
Churchill was rightly hated by many during his political career, and he made many bumbling mistakes.
Soames obviously thinks himself above democracy as do many of the other old hangers on that have been in parliament too long.

nanny41 the vote last night was not about whether we leave or we do not leave, it was to try and stop, in law, Johnson and the ERG from forcing a no deal Brexit, the one that nobody voted for despite what they tell you, because it was not an option on the ballot paper. The people who went against Johnson were a mixture of remainers and leavers, the one thing they had in common was not wanting to leave without a deal.

Churchill’s grandson looks visibly upset.

What a ghastly government this is.

There will be yet another election. Conservatives are likely to win .... people won’t just be voting with Brexit in mind .... but keeping Corbyn out! Boris isn’t as bumbling as he may appear.

The referendum meant LEAVE ,why are they going against that, where has democracy gone to.